Asking, no begging, for sincere Belgian Malinois advice - Page 4

i should video my 8 month old mal for you who is a working dog (training schutzhund and narcotics) but is also a house dog. I love this dog he is my baby but there are times i want to scream at him to lay down(but i cant because its how he is) cause he is non stop energy and drive all the time!

I firmly believe a good working line malinois can be a good family dog. I would strongly suggest looking at belgian and dutch lines. I couldn't stand a dog that could NOT relax or settle in the house. I don't like the prey-driven hyper dogs that are purely for sport. I'd rather have a dog I can live and work with. My malinois has a great off switch. She gets plenty of running/training and is perfectly content to crash out at the end of the day. She will certainly let me know if someone is coming to the door but will settle and say hello when I give her the OK. She is then more than ready to play with visitors. I blow up balloons all the time for my dogs to play with. They love popping them. My malinois does not react with fear to that kind of noise. Gunshot, balloon, yelling kids, whatever. She shows curiosity and interest, but not instant biting. Who would want or breed a dog like this?

I'm a first time malinois owner, my girl is about 13 months old now. She is 100% working KNPV lines (PH1 sire/dam). I specifically told the breeder that I was looking for a dog with strong nerves. One that could handle running on trails where we would meet other dogs, wildlife, lots of people. A dog that I could train for SAR or detection.  That is what I got. Is she a malinois? Sure. Reactive, to some degree- of course. She is a malinois. She has an amazing nose and good drives for work. She is quick and athletic and supremely agile. A great mountain dog.

I take her out in crowds all the time. She is NOT trying to bite everyone. Not at all. She is alert, for sure. Were someone to challenge me there would be a lot of barking and fixation on that person. But she shows great understanding of what is and is not a threat. Children can pat her with permission. She is happy to say hello to friendly strangers once given the OK. She is not a snippy dog. She has never tried to 'snap' at anyone and she is not possessive. I did not want a dog with resource gaurding tendencies. I have two other dogs and she gets along great with them. She is reactive to some strange dogs we meet on the trails but not aggressive. She is very trainable and is doing great with detection work- best nose I've seen on a dog for sure.

She is a real snuggler with family. She has no issues with being touched, picked up, handled, or anything like that.

I think malinois are not dogs for someone who wants and 'easy' breed. I have socialized her from day one and she still has her reactive moments. But they are simply barking alert at something. NOT biting or charging a person. Good recall, rock solid OB and she is controlled.

So, I think you can do it. I can recommend some breeders who would have what you are looking for and are working line. Get a solid 'pet' quality dog- this means a good dog just without the crazy drives.

I, too, don't enjoy a lab. I think you can find what you want. Choose wisely.

malinak,
You did not read the beginning of the post. The OP does not want to have to monitor the pup and/or adult. Pretend you are the breeder. Would you sell a pup to a pet person who wants to be able to leave the pup/adult alone loose, UNATTENDED by an adult, with and without their kids and neighbor's kids and NOT have the pup/adult destroy the house or accidently injure the kids (just by playing rough)? Would you guarantee that your pup/adult that you sell this pet person will not cause damage to house, home or people?

Sometimes you have to protect the pup from potentially bad situations by not even putting it in that home. That is when you direct the buyer to another breed that will fit his environment.

I need to correct my previous post. No breeder can guarantee that a dog will not do a certain activity or behavior. But they can certainly help predict what the pup/dog's predispostion might be to do that activity.

malinak, I'm curious - what breedings out there would you recommend for this OP. This OP will probably not give atention to detail in socializing the pup. I am very familiar with Dylan. He can be serious, stubborn and "dirty" in his bitework. He can't be trusted around children who he does not respect either. So it would take a really social, even tempered female to offset that in his puppies.


 

Just checked in on this for the first time in a while and saw the latest posts.  I am the original poster.  I am not sure where Asomich is coming from.  This person clearly seems to be responding to phantom issues.  No where did I state that I "don't want to monitor the pup or adult."  I simply ASKED if there was ever a point after years of training where one would be comfortable with a mal. in the house with children without direct supervision.  I even believe the example I used was if I am upstairs and (the then 11 year olds after TWO years with a trained socialized Mal.) could be in another room with the mal.  People responded "no they would not" and if I were ever to get a mal. I would then act accordingly.  I certainly did not ask for a "guarantee", (just one more of Asomich's mischaracterizations) as I fully understand no one could guarantee such a thing.   I was asking for an opinion from people with experience.  Asomich is clearly one of those breed snobs that punishes people who want to learn and obtain information.  Most people want someone to research a breed, especially a Malinois, very carefully BEFORE getting one.  That is why I asked questions and sought information.  Read the entire post and NO REASONABLE person would suggest I was attempting anything otherwise.  Asomich is clearly not one of those reasonable people whose first concern is proper ownership.  He/She would simply rather ridicule, punish or misrepresent their view for some sort of egotistic irrational feeling of satisfaction.  That is ashamed since most people on this thread seemed genuinely interested and caring about people wanting information regarding this breed.  Again, Asomich is clearly not one of them.  This would explain some of the private messages that I received.  To the others who answered my questions with genuine concern and helpful information I thank you.  It is nice that some people are in it for the dog and the breed and not their ego.

Oh, and I just noticed one more of Asomich's presumptuous and arrogant comments: "OP will probably not give attention to detail in socializing the pup."  This conclusion is based on what??? .......That someone is researching, asking questions, talking to breeders across the country, calling trainers all over, attending the local Schutzhund group to talk with people there and spend time with mals, reading books from the library and gathering all information from anyone I can??  I would think this is the VERY definition of someone who is attempting responsible dog ownership.  I would not pretend that dachshunds, westies, an akita and a golden are anywhere near the same category as a mal. but I have raised happy healthy dogs and cats my entire life.  True, I have no direct experience with Mals. but Asomich's bs assumption that I am uniquely unqualified because I ask a VARIETY of questions and seek opinions smacks of some one with some serious issues who is not very rooted in reality.  Guess I have to assume he abuses his animals.  What else can one think????  Right back at you Asomich.  How do outrageous presumptuous conclusions feel when directed at you?  Maybe stay off this forum and visit a shrink.

And by the way Malinak, sincere thanks for your post.  As I said, most people on this forum want to offer sincere insight and advice....not simply thump their chest and criticize people.

  Jivan,
This is what I was going by:
"My two little girls (8, would be 9 when puppy arrives) always have friend over....  I might be upstairs and the my kids might be playing downstairs and placing the dog in the kennel/pen the entire time unless I am in the room would be tough."   
 
No where did I see where you came back and said that you will keep the mal contained while there is not an adult around. (Your 16 year old son, if he gets involved with obedience training the pup, would be considered an adult.) Maybe you changed your mind and did not post it. This thread has not even begun to discuss the amount of work required to socialize the pup the first 16 weeks before the major window closes. I have found when selling my pups and discussing all of the details that a buyer is going to have to go through, they end up saying that is too much work, they do not have that kind of schedule, and/or they do not have that kind of time. Puppy socialization is like having a toddler and if folks already have kids, they usually don't want to take on another kid for about a year until the pup is past that stage. So I apologize for making that assumption with you.

Now if you want to make statements like this "Guess I have to assume he abuses his animals". That would be the same as my saying to you "Guess I have to assume he beats his wife", or "Guess I have to assume he neglects his kids".  Geez!
 
Malinak has a mal off of Dylan Perle de Tourbiere. I interpreted Malinak's post that any malinois would be fine and could recommend several breeders. Malinak is probably not aware that Dylan is a very strong natured stud. In fact, Malinak's pup came from a very strong, very very nice working line breeding. It sounds that the pup's dam is very stable. Malinak has a pup that fits in her environment and maybe thinks that all breedings off of Dylan would be like her pup, at least that is what I read from her post - I could be wrong. At the same time, the pup is reactive, which is normal and even appreciated by working dog folks, and the pup has been heavily socialized. Most pet people are put off by the reactivity of a normal, good tempered mal. Most pet people don't have the stamina to keep socializing the pup through these periods, while at the same time, defending their pup against uninformed people who already think that he is vicious. But this is a whole different thread about how to socialize a pup. 

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=727
 http://leerburg.com/flix/searchResults.php?searchfor=michael ellis on different forms of aggression

  Most pet peoleIn fact I trained with a Dylan granddaughter last weekend who lives with a family with young children. She is a stable, excellent working prospect. She is related to my male. I discussed her with her breeder and he described her parents and how he selected her for that buyer. I am really impressed with the pup and I even offered to buy her from her owner, but he and his wife are too attached to her. Her owner has a job that allows him to spend all day with her. At the same time, she is showing typical mal pup behavior to avoid some things that she doesn't want to do. It's normal, and the owner is now aware of it and knows to watch her around his kids and anticipate that behavior and put a stop to it. That is normal handling of a mal pup. But alot of pet people don't even want to deal with that. This one does.

I apologize to both Malinak and Jivan if I made too many assumptions about your posts.

 

Jivan,
 
How about you petsitting some of the mals from your local SchH club at your house around your kids (without their owners). I think that would give you more information than any of us can on this forum. Personal experience can describe the breed more than any books or forum explanations. Then get some of the club members to help you find a mal pup and then socialize that pup. Hands on help is always better than forum help. Face to face conversation doesn't feel so critical like written words on a forum. That would be your best bet. Talking back and forth on a forum lends itself to too many misunderstandings. 

Then you can make your own decisions based on your own personal experiences. 

So calm down and go borrow a mal for an afternoon this weekend. 
   
Thanx, asomich.