20 wk old mal - some fear issues and likes to bark and certain people. - Page 2

To all people new to the Malinois:
1) Do your homework on the breed BEFORE purchasing the pup
2) Find a good trainer BEFORE purchasing the pup
3) Purchase the pup from a reputable breeder that will give you support
 
OP:
I'm sorry, but anxiety is fear.  I think you need to be socializing your pup EVERY day.  You need to be doing puppy obedience 5 to 15 min EVERY day.  You need to be playing with your pup to build a relationship EVERY day.    Socializing and doing obedience are different things.

Are you sure that your new trainer from Lackland did not tell you to socialize the pup?  Are you sure you're telling us everything he said? What did he say after he evaluated your pup?  Lackland has a puppy foster program to get their pups socialized.  Your post just doesn't make sense.  
   
I take it that you're in San Antonio.  I'm in Houston.  Let's get together and I'll help you out.  I have 2-11 week male pups that I am working with.  They are barking at everything that looks new and different.  You can see how I handle them.  You won't have to pay me.  PM me!
 

Hi Terra-  I rescued about an 8 month old Mal just over a year ago, and have faced some of the same issues. I suspect some of my dogs problems were abuse related, but here's what has worked for me so far:
 patience, repetition, patience, repetition, patience repetition.
Let her gain confidence with people at home, in her own territory where she is most confident, then little by little expand her territory- wait till she's at home at the dog park, then around the block and out in the neighborhood, and do the shopping center absolutely last- it's the most complicated, alien, and stressfull environment she'll face.

So it is over a month later.

Heidi who came from my friend, malniois breeder and employeer at this time. She employeed me 3 days a week to work at the kennel with 5 other mals. So my understanding is better, plus i am employeed with a k9 protection company at this time (2 jobs) and I am learning from that source that was a master kennel trainer at Lackland. Heidi goes to work with me as well:) My guestions to this forum was to get a second opinon, or 4th. My explinations and writting skills are horrible. I cant ever get anything out correctly.
not sure how to share her lines? She is akc reg and i have her parents info but not sure how to translate it to some one else.

Do i need help at this time? from the forum, not more than support. we have improved 90%. She went to board and train and was evaluated here in Sacramento. Most the issues she has are a mix of my own anxiety over her, that is now being managed and it seems some of the pups from this litter are just this way. I am attedning group trainings so Heidi and myself can learn and observe, be in the mix with other people and dogs in a group environment that isnt the dog park.  We only did that because her board and train trainer ask me to so she can observe us and see how we are doing.

Heidi has made 2 friends at my home, plus is not not barking at people that visit. I do have to correct her if she makes a tiny bark, but if they ignore her she goes up and befriends them after a hour or so. She was able to lay with the kids and chew on her bone just yesturday. A month ago she wouldn't let the kids walk with out nipping at them.

Actually today, we went to get our hair cut, target and to the grocery store. She was excellent for a 6 month old puppy. not a sound came out of her. the worst thing she did was tighten up the leash a couple times.

So why did you waste this forum's time if you already had access to the breeder and experienced trainers? Sounds like you were going to do what you wanted to do in the first place! Or is that you got a nervy pup from your employer and didn't want to complain to him or her?

I came to this forum when i didnt have access to help. When my breeder was out of town, for 3 weeks. I have since got the help needed.
I think that your advice was spot on, but your tone was very harsh.

i greatly appricate your replies but i will not continue my membership here.

You tell the forum after the fact that you work for a malinois breeder and also at a k9 protection kennel. You have access to folks that have malinois and working dog knowledge. You tell us after the fact that you live in a part of the country where there are a ton of sport clubs and decoys (and malinois). You should have gotten your butt out to a club to get hands on help. You should have been trying to study and learn as much as you could on your own. If you could find this forum, you could have found all the free Michael Ellis streaming videos on www.leerburg.com. Your breeder was gone for 3 weeks, but you should have been socializing your puppy before he left. So I don't buy that. Besides, you should have been responsible enough on your own to not depend on just one person for help. But you presented yourself as a pet person with a new working malinois pup, without a clue in the world and without the wherewithal to raise it. My issue with you is that you deliberately misrepresented yourself. Most people who respond to newbie (or so we thought that was what you were) questions and spend alot of time and thought in our replies, do so because we love the breed and we want people to have success with it. We like to help people and enjoy teaching them. We believe that they HONESTLY need help. And then you come back to the forum and say that you just wanted us for a second or fourth opinion. I have the right to be disgusted that I wasted my time with you. You set this forum up.

Are you a teenager? You need to have your parents read this thread. Have your breeder friend/employer read it too.

asomich- I read your responses and I greatly appreciate them. Please do not feel that your responses that were thought out, went unappreciated. You're very knowledgeable about the breed. My husband did the leg work and thought that a Mal would be a great dog for our family. I was in favor of a lab or golden, but agreed because this was his dream dog. If you really want to know the whole story I can go into it, but basically he decided to get our dog from Ruidoso Malinois...yes, RUIDOSO MALINOIS. She was older than we were originally told, untrained, underweight, UNSOCIALIZED and terrified of everything that moved all the way down to the wind blowing the branches in a tree. She even approached a fire hydrant catiously when we got her home and took her on a walk. My husband wanted to throw in the towel and send her to a rescue in AZ, but I stuck with her. With some help from local trainers and patience and understanding from myself she has improved immensely. I truely believe she was abused by the handler there...she is was terrified of men, but has befriended some of our male friends and the time frame to achieve this has gotten smaller and smaller. If there is a man carrying anything stick-like she cowers and tries to get away-bat, tennis racket, fishing rod, trash picker upper, rake, broom etc. God forbid they wave it in the air.
I have used the tactics you speak of in your first response and have seen amazing results with my girl. And I completely agree with everything that you say regarding them being tolerant in indifferent to people rather than friendly. She will never be friendly to strangers and that is fine with me. She is an excellent dog for myself and my child when we are out. I don't want strangers approaching us. She even creates her little bubble around us barking her warning bark if we are out in the mesa walking and my husband approaches us trying to catch up with us on our walk. She is excellent and the journey that we have made, although rocky and not what we expected has been a learning experience. A good one. It has been fun to see her improve over time. We will have her one year in October. 

Thank you for your responses. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. How do I maker her feel more like a working dog? Like that she is serving her purpose. She does tricks, but I need ideas of things that she will enjoy. She is a pleaser and I just want to capture her mind and make her work. any videos? Any one you recommend in the San Diego area?  

Ruidosa, from a pedigree standpoint, had or has good lines. Their dogs should genetically be pretty stable. But you can take any well bred mal and let it sit in a kennel (even a shelter kennel) or backyard and not socialize it and the poor dog acts like it's been beaten because it is so afraid of what it doesn't know. 
 
"barking her warning bark if we are out in the mesa walking and my husband approaches us trying to catch up with us on our walk." - is this fearful stay away barking or i'm happy excited to see you barking? 

Right now I would say that you may need to work on making your husband your dog's buddy if the barking is fearful barking. Let her wait to get fed from him. Have him feed her by hand. Have him do some obedience with her. Have him actively play with her. If she is fine with the playing, slowing add some rough housing with it.  Try playing ball or tug. Michael Ellis has an exellent dvd on just that. She needs to bond more with your husband. If she has to have only one meal late at night waiting for him, don't worry about it. The food drive will be that much better. Have her sit (in her crate) with him while he is on the computer or watching tv.

Then you two need to brainstorm about how to get her around men, nothing younger than high school kids. If it was my pup, I would first go to a pet store and ask men to pet my dog. I would not feed her before and give the guys a treat to give her. If she is too afraid to handle that, don't overload her. Just have her sit or down near the entrance or register and let folks pass by. She may never be able to handle strange men touching her (ha ha). Then I'm thinking softball games, the basketball court at your neighborhood park, etc. I would just take her crate, a lawn chair, cooler, ipad, etc and just park it. Let her lay in the crate and just watch. Then after you have been there for a while, take her out and walk around near the men. If she is ok with that, then ask them to give her a treat. Maybe you can find a home depot, bowling alley, etc that will let you take her in. Bass Pro Shop is wonderful for socializing. People who work and buy there really like dogs. Your goal is just indifference at this point.  Don't fret too much - she is what she is at this point. 
  
I really like the Michael Ellis dvd's. I would start with the The Power Of Training Dogs With Food " and "The "  and " is 
If you want to play tug and use the tug as reward in your training, then The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog is good.
http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/143/The_Power_of_Playing_Tug_with_Your_Dog_Commercial 
  Bowwowflix is like netflix:
http://www.bowwowflix.com/detail.php?id=132

There is alot of good free stuff on Leerburg. You can save alot of time and money educating yourself. then when you do spend time with a trainer, you will start at a further point in your training plan.
 
http://leerburg.com/flix/category.php?categoryid=30 
 
For fun I would do agility, or dock diving, or nose work http://www.k9nosework.com/
If you don't have time for an organized sport, then try to do things like them on your own. The more exposure your dog has to different things, the more confident she will become.

A lot of mals have stick or swinging object issues. I would first start out by having you desensitize her. when she is fine with you doing it, then have your kid do it, then your husband do it. Swing something around when she is eating. Don't do it too close. then do it when she is in her crate. Then open the crate door and do it. then do it when she is sitting in a "safe" place in the house - like under the table or on the sofa. If she runs back to the crate, then you know that is too much. Hopefully you can build it up to your husband swinging an object. With the working dogs, we desensitize them to the schH stick or bamboo stick. I will slice it over their head with it while playing and stroke them with it while they are eatting. When they are fine with that then I will thump them on the side while we are playing. You may never get to that state with your girl, but you can probably improve things.

These are just ideas to get you started. Just take it slow. I'm sure that you can brainstorm more and better alternatives. Good luck.
 ..

WOW ... Asomich , I don't think you have any idea how you come across to anybody reading here . You're the one who sounds like a spoiled teenager , unbelievable , I wouldn't take a dog from you if you gave it to me .