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by BabyEagle4U on 04 June 2010 - 18:06
I think my Mal is 100% prey at this point. I'd like to keep her like this until I decide otherwise.
Training with the sleeve her prey drive isn't capped. She is allowed think and act out thrashin and hatein the sleeve when ever she see's it. I wouldn't concider this defense because she's not defending anything or anyone .. she just wants to hate the sleeve. I dunno for sure though, everyone's opinion is different I notice.
But for everyday life her prey drive is capped to just chasing, pointing or stalking... sometimes she'll just stop and stare. She's not allowed to physically touch or bark at anything she has her sights or sniff on. She's a mountain land and farm dog so her prey drive has a mental cap by choice. It's a must. But I see this is hurting us on the bark and hold.
I've seen her in defense once with a pack of yotes. Even then all she had to do was bark aggressively and move forward a little and that was enough to keep them away from us. So I'm not sure if that was even defense. Other than this she has never had to actually or physically defend herself or anything for that matter, so defense training would be brand new. I and her are not ready for that.
She does bark at strangers, but not aggressively, more like strongly making herself known and even then they need to be near the vehicle or house to get a good bark. At this point she would never bite without a sleeve. I want to keep her like this until I show title her, then progress with working title training.
I really like her in prey, she's just a well rounded happy and extremely people and animal social dog and I've learned prey is more mental state than physical with her. I almost want to say defense would ruin her, but I dunno.
Now concerning the sleeve. My problem is the bark and hold, she just will not do it. If she's 1 foot,10 feet, 300 feet from the sleeve, she just sits, stands or downs and focuses tremendously like on edge .. but still doesn't bark.
Maybe I'm not understanding what civil drive is or isn't. But A'Tim was mentioned and I'm confused as to wether civil drive can be supressed or capped and or channeled by the dog it's self from the beginning due to training and/or environments, say like 7 week old pup on. Or is civil drive associated only with defense ? What is the goal of civil drive ? Just wondering.
Training with the sleeve her prey drive isn't capped. She is allowed think and act out thrashin and hatein the sleeve when ever she see's it. I wouldn't concider this defense because she's not defending anything or anyone .. she just wants to hate the sleeve. I dunno for sure though, everyone's opinion is different I notice.
But for everyday life her prey drive is capped to just chasing, pointing or stalking... sometimes she'll just stop and stare. She's not allowed to physically touch or bark at anything she has her sights or sniff on. She's a mountain land and farm dog so her prey drive has a mental cap by choice. It's a must. But I see this is hurting us on the bark and hold.
I've seen her in defense once with a pack of yotes. Even then all she had to do was bark aggressively and move forward a little and that was enough to keep them away from us. So I'm not sure if that was even defense. Other than this she has never had to actually or physically defend herself or anything for that matter, so defense training would be brand new. I and her are not ready for that.
She does bark at strangers, but not aggressively, more like strongly making herself known and even then they need to be near the vehicle or house to get a good bark. At this point she would never bite without a sleeve. I want to keep her like this until I show title her, then progress with working title training.
I really like her in prey, she's just a well rounded happy and extremely people and animal social dog and I've learned prey is more mental state than physical with her. I almost want to say defense would ruin her, but I dunno.
Now concerning the sleeve. My problem is the bark and hold, she just will not do it. If she's 1 foot,10 feet, 300 feet from the sleeve, she just sits, stands or downs and focuses tremendously like on edge .. but still doesn't bark.
Maybe I'm not understanding what civil drive is or isn't. But A'Tim was mentioned and I'm confused as to wether civil drive can be supressed or capped and or channeled by the dog it's self from the beginning due to training and/or environments, say like 7 week old pup on. Or is civil drive associated only with defense ? What is the goal of civil drive ? Just wondering.
by Wolfinbok on 04 June 2010 - 21:06
BE,
This is not something I think you will sort out alone. Get a book on
the basics of training a dog in this type of work. If you take her to a club or
trainer they will help you. Put her on a leash the helper will approach you in a hostile manner,
than he will jump back when she moves forward at him in defence drive. This will encourage her
to stay in defence as they runaway from her. The difference is she is doing this to fend off a would be attacker rather than to chase a ball. Civil drive is measured in the amount of
fear she has when she is defending you. Some dog simply don't show any fear, they have high civil drive and like to fight. Most dogs you need to build their confidence, and
as they mature their civil drive begins to increase.
So start by learning the basics, books, DVDs, spend a day with
a good trainer in this sport. And when you learn, share it with those who need help,
pass it on.
This is not something I think you will sort out alone. Get a book on
the basics of training a dog in this type of work. If you take her to a club or
trainer they will help you. Put her on a leash the helper will approach you in a hostile manner,
than he will jump back when she moves forward at him in defence drive. This will encourage her
to stay in defence as they runaway from her. The difference is she is doing this to fend off a would be attacker rather than to chase a ball. Civil drive is measured in the amount of
fear she has when she is defending you. Some dog simply don't show any fear, they have high civil drive and like to fight. Most dogs you need to build their confidence, and
as they mature their civil drive begins to increase.
So start by learning the basics, books, DVDs, spend a day with
a good trainer in this sport. And when you learn, share it with those who need help,
pass it on.
by Wolfinbok on 05 June 2010 - 15:06
BE,
I just reread my post here, part of your question pertained to A'Tim progeny.
One of the biggest mistakes people make with his bloodline,
is to expect something right away, but you won't see A'Tim traits emerge
until the dog is starting to mature at a little later time, Like a late bloomer.
But rest assure it is coming and when it does they tend to be a in your face
kind of dog. So be careful not to evaluate to early. He was a very good NVBK type dog,
with good civil drive.
I just reread my post here, part of your question pertained to A'Tim progeny.
One of the biggest mistakes people make with his bloodline,
is to expect something right away, but you won't see A'Tim traits emerge
until the dog is starting to mature at a little later time, Like a late bloomer.
But rest assure it is coming and when it does they tend to be a in your face
kind of dog. So be careful not to evaluate to early. He was a very good NVBK type dog,
with good civil drive.
by BabyEagle4U on 06 June 2010 - 03:06
ya, she has heart. She's 3 now.
I took her on a 16 mile bike ride today to a dock where we keep the boats, and she still swam the whole way home. I think she misses the race track.
A'Tim was the best. RIP
I took her on a 16 mile bike ride today to a dock where we keep the boats, and she still swam the whole way home. I think she misses the race track.
A'Tim was the best. RIP
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