The Evolution Of The Topline In The GSD - Page 1

I know that we often discuss the topline of our dogs, specifically the appearance of an excessive "roach" that has appeared during the last twenty (20) years or so. There is an interesting commentary by Herr Walter Winkler, Ex-Präsidenten der Österreichischen Hundesport Union (ÖHU) that furnishes some history of this evolution and to the future that it may influence. There are some links as well to interesting comments by Dr. Helmut Raiser. This document was written several years ago, but much of the information in timeless, in a sense. The comments by Herr Winkler may have been no doubt influenced by some input from Dr. Raiser, as well as others. This is all written in the German language, so my apologies to those who cannot easily read it. But it does provide some interesting history of the changes and the issues caused by these changes. It can be seen at this link: http://www.hund.ch/insider/owsv.htm Please consider this just additional information and ideas, and not an attempt to attack the ideals of the S.V. or other GSD organizations. Bob-O

Thanks Bob-O. I can see I'll be busy on the Google translation page. -Tina

that's a laugh --- seriously thinking of dropping my membership out of the SV --- what's to comment on --?? how even though somew dogs grater than the standard heioght have made it to VA or High V -- ?? the evolution of topline -- mhey -- let's stop the baloney -- the "STANDARD IS THE STADARD " as it is written in all the parent clubs -- the structure includes the exact angulation .. the exact length and width , the exact propertions , colors , coat type etc etc --- so if anyone can answer me ... why has this not been strictly adhered to in the pasat and presently breeding/showing ?? --= the topline -- as far as i am concearned -- there is no evolution -- the topline is stated with exactitude !!IMO -- there should never have existed those roach backs -- the croup angulation from the rear is 30 degrees -- and how long has that standard existed ?? was it since the days of max v. stephanitz ?? -- just a matter if you have breed and select for it or not !! please you folks that get all wrapped up and sucked into the so call fads -- reminds me of the american bred dogs with their hocks on the ground and the breeders say ..oh it's the american correct way -- foolish people --since when did you ever seee any canid with it'sd hocks on the ground ?? -- forget the buzz -- let's just stick to the STANDARD -- i for one do -- and i can give a hoot what anyone else says nor do give a hoot about having a VA dog -- and issue number two -- so concearned about the roach backs -- .. i think the behavioral traits betyter get even more attention !! seems like the ,malinois are far outdoing the GSD -- even in germany as well as France and Belgium they have gained enormous popularity - i think the SV really ought to clean house

Very interessting article on the "BERGABSCHÄFERHUND". I enjoyed the humor "man beachte die Hinterhand, das Sprunggelenk hat den Boden fast erreicht, das nächste Zuchtziel wäre die Fortsetzung unter der Erde! " And further down he comments that pictures where taken placing the dog on a slope to enhance the downhill appearance. I enjoyed reading the comments about testicles which should be considered a fault if laying almost on the ground, and the remarks by Helmut Raiser "A frog in the back and a dog in the front" and the remark "die Leere im Kopf und der langweilige, doofe Gesichtsausdruck..." Don't believe that this humor will come across in a Google translation from german to English

Alphapup, thanks for the observation. I was careful as I presented a comment about this old webpage, as an earlier thread appeared about "the splitting of the S.V." and just after I added a comment the thread was yanked. No, I didn't say anything vulgar or politicising, but basically commented that the world waited to see whether this would really happen. The original post was not inflammatory in any way-just repeating to some degree a post made a few days earlier. Don't know who did this or why, but that's not important. I have not paid any attention to remarks made by Dr. Raiser until his recent departure (some might say ouster) from a high-level position inside the S.V.. Evidently he has been talking for a long time and finally went too far with some of his remarks as they fell upon ears that did not wish to hear them, or hear anymore. I will not ask that he be a candidate for sainthood, as I feel that while has his heart in the correct place that some of his ideas are too radical. It is neverthess interesting that his remarks caused such a stir inside the normally staid S.V.. Obviously he went too far for many of the governing members. Bob-O

Uvar, Do you have any suggestions for a free translation site that may do a better job then Google? For those of us that cannot read German that would be welcome information. Thanks, Tina

Thanks Bob-O. This website does a fair trasnlation. Atleast well enough to understand the commentary. http://babelfish.altavista.com/ Kyle

The author of this article, a criminal investigator if I understand this correctly, appears to be an excellent writer. Humorous phrases mixed with accurate observations are outstanding. No suggestions, you would need to go to university and study German.

Alpha, The practice of ignoring the standard is as old as the dog show. It results when a judge is impressed with a particular animal ( or his good friend who owns it) and gives a commentary that conveniently glosses over or even misrepresents the dogs shortcomings. How many times do we see a Koerschein that seems to be describing a different and much better dog than the one pictured? It is normal to say that every dog is pronounced in courage, hardness, and fighting drive, and is becoming more common for an overangulated dog to be described as having "very good angulation". These judges are not ignorant, and so we must suppose that they are following SV policy of promoting such dogs or that they are caught up in the politics. Bob, I think Raiser was pushed out because he became an embarrassment to the SV. Best Wishes, Jonah

Jonah, absolutely correct comments. According to what I have read Dr. Raiser was indeed pushed out of the S.V. by an overwhelming vote. It was not a close vote where one might say that it was a fair contest. It was a coup, plain and simple. Some have taken issue with this type of "expulsion" and sided with Dr. Raiser, who states that he at the genesis of his new version, or I should say alternative to the club known as the S.V. While I think he might have some success in at least the formative years of such a club, I doubt that ten (10) years from now it will even exist, or be remembered by anyone. Again, while I feel his heart is in the right place, I think his mouth may dissuade those who he needs for support. Bob-O