Quite Disturbed... does this happen often ? - Page 8

D.H., I agree with you regarding owners, I've never said otherwise. If you've read about some of my experiences you know they have not been all that great and I've only scratched the surface here. I've bred very few litters in 30 years, but I still got back a lot of dogs due to irresponsible owners. Yes, I screened my buyers, gave them written contracts on everything possible but the color of the toenails, handed out brochures on the breed, required a fence. It was never ending. I just could not turn my back on the dogs I bred that the owners no longer wanted. So, you sell a dog to an owner who decides, for whatever reason, they don't want the dog, then what? Should the breeder just let the dog end up where it may or try to either take it back or help find another home? It just seems to me that in all these discussions the real problem of doing the right thing for the DOG is being ignored. What about the dog? What does a breeder "owe" to the dogs they produce? Everything? Nothing? Anything? Screw the owners, I don't give a hoot about them. I care about the unwanted dogs period. What are THEIR rights in all of this? The way we Americans shrug off our respsonsiblities is disgraceful. The governement is no better. We feel we are not to be held accountable for anything anymore. It's always - let someone else do it. As EK said, if people abandon babies in dumpsters why would we think they would do anything better for a dog? There is not enough money in the world to persuade me to ever breed another litter unless I was prepared to keep every single puppy or had the room to take back any that were unwanted. The rest can do as they please, I have to sleep at night.

Howdy, i would have responded earlier in this discussion, but unfortnetly i have a mayor PC problem..... i cant send mails anymore.... DH, i will write when it works again ! Blitzen, i do read many threads of yours and i do enjoy reading them. Yes u are right u never said what i wrote. Maybe my english is not good enough.... but clearly, what i wrote can be read between the lines. I do agree every little bit with DH. When i lived in Kansas City i used to drive an 18 wheeler. i have been to all states, only one missing is Alaska. I cannot count how many dog-packs i have seen running around. These dogs are not taken care of, they are not having their shots etc.... Yet, look at the breeds of these dogs, you will have a hard time finding a pur bred beneath them. Are the breeders of these dogs responsible for what is happening there ??!! Do i believe these dogs to be put down,yes, i think its better for these dogs and for the communitys that have to deal with this. Its just like that, if peopel dont pay for something it seems to be of no value for them, nor in a ethical or real life way. Things changed the last couple of years, values are lost and life has become much faster and more restless. And yes, every now & then u will find a pure bred GSD in a shelter, but that is, if u compare the numbers, rather seldom. Blitz, i just started my breeding programm, my A-litter has fallen in march. Did i look carefully where to place them, sure did. Did i give a guaranty on hips, etc., sure not. Reason : I cannot garanty for something i have NO controll over after the pup was picked up. Will i help if there is a problem, sure will. I hope i was able to get my point across. Regards Ulli

I went out of town for a few days and this thread has made a full circle once again. One you sell a pup or dog, the new owner has taken responsibility for it. To hexe, refusing to take puppies back is the best and safest management practice you can do. Regardless of whose feelings you hurt. Plain and simple. Sounds harsh? Too bad--'cause it's nowhere NEAR as harsh contaminating your own home and the needles suffering and dying of puppies. Not mentioning the mental anguish and torment you go through trying to save sick puppies and having many die anyway. Having been burned by taking puppies and dogs back, once it leaves it never comes back, if you do not like the fact, that protecting your own home, dogs and litters is a higher priority than risking their needles suffering, you are just being purposely contradictory to the situation at hand. Money is not the issue, bio-security is. How many puppies get sick at the veterinarians? How many get sick from just being hand walked on leash in suburban neighborhood? Your puppies health is more important. To Blitzen, where is the proof that your national breed club will force you to take them back? There are so many abandoned and unwanted dogs that many shelters and animal rights organizations make a nice income requesting and soliciting donations. Many rescues and shelters are money making ventures that have agendas used to scam people out of money first, then use the money as they seem fit, buying nice houses, cars and so on. It is funny how people come out of the woodwork on issues like not taking puppies back. Stating that they do not breed, raise dogs, train dogs, show dogs, or even have dogs, but they sure do monitor who is doing what and voice negative opinions to those actively involved with dogs and tell them what and how to do everything. Why are guys here if you do not breed, raise dogs, train dogs, show dogs, or even have dogs anyway? If you are not actively involved with dogs, why do you feel it is your place to tell those who are, how they must conduct their personal business?

MArtin just so you know I do train (not as high up as most of you guys/gals but still learning) and have breed and placed puppies. It is a hard road I have been there and lost litters. That is the hardest thing that you have to live with knowing it all came from "that" puppy/dog. In most cases now if someone brings me a dog/spray (most of the time they just leave them) I put it in a crate and call animal controll, SOUNDS bad and all I know I have a hard time placing the call BUT... my new born babies are my responsiblity and I have to make sure they have a fighting chance. It is NOT about the money it is about life, thier life. Although If I have stayed in contact with the owners and know the owners pretty well, (like my last case) then I will rehome the dog but this is only in those cases. And I have a person looking for a dog, they are crated and placed within a day. We all have to make choices and there are exceptions to the rules. But until you have had a litter die or paid out hundreds/thousands to fix puppies only for them to die you really have not walked in most of our shoes. It is so easy being on the outside looking in giving advise.

http://www.dogplay.com/breeding/ethics.html This site lists various links to different topics regarding being a responsible dog breed. Click on the link regarding Codes of Ethics and I believe you will find that many AKC dog clubs require that their members take back their unwanted dogs as well as numerous other provisions. Violations of these provisions can lead to suspension or expulsion.

Blitzen says: I believe you will find that many AKC dog clubs require that their members take back their unwanted dogs as well as numerous other provisions. Violations of these provisions can lead to suspension or expulsion. Too bad that the AKC itself doesn't have any rules, regulations, guidelines or standards. (Other than those that are in place to make more $$$) A study of hypocrisy: ON "frequently used studs" DNA is required (good idea but.....) On the other hand a breeding between mother/son, father/daughter is recognized and registration papers issued no questions asked, as long as appklicable fees are paid. What the......???

EKvonEarnhardt wrote, "We all have to make choices and there are exceptions to the rules. But until you have had a litter die or paid out hundreds/thousands to fix puppies only for them to die you really have not walked in most of our shoes. It is so easy being on the outside looking in giving advise." Hello EK, I could not agree with you more. Perhaps some of the over critical and judgmental people "on the outside looking in" should do a bit of research before they decide what is right and wrong for other people. Perhaps they should listen to people of experience who have been through the anguish of staying up all night trying to nurse sick puppies back to health after they have been exposed to disease from "off the yard," only to have them die in your arms at dawn. Maybe, just maybe, it is not an issue of selfishness and greed, but an issue of insuring that other innocent puppies and dogs are not hurt or killed due to careless negligence of irresponsible persons, who expose puppies and dogs to all kinds of terrible things, then want to bring them to you, an infect yours. If I had all the litters that were killed by incoming illness from off the yard, due to other peoples neglect. If I had to money from these pups and the money that was used for medicines and supplies, trying to save sick puppies and have few if any survivors. If I had the money that was used to decontaminate the kennels and home after an outbreak of something originating of the yard. I guess I would be the tycoon, that the uniformed believe conscientious are. Truth be known, one or two litters a year, some years none does not add up at the bank. Stud fees, for breeding to outside studs, veterinarian care of the dogs and puppies. Then the occasional puppies that are sold, what profit is made to cover all the expenses? None here, I guess I am doing it all wrong. Getting your planned breeding and then placing puppies in proper homes, even if given away to get a dog in a great home does not ad up at the bank. If I had the money that those on the outside claim is flowing in, I guess I would have a brand new Lexus every year. As it stands my car and minivan are 5 years old. I go to work to support my dogs. I do not breed dogs to support me. Therefor protecting my own home, dogs and litters is a high priority. Once again, some of the over critical and judgmental people "on the outside looking in" should do a bit of research before they decide what is right and wrong for other people. Perhaps they should listen to people of experience who have been through the anguish of staying up all night trying to nurse sick puppies back to health after they have been exposed to disease from "off the yard," only to have them die in your arms at dawn. Maybe, just maybe, it is not an issue of selfishness and greed, but an issue of insuring that other innocent puppies and dogs are not hurt or killed due to careless negligence of irresponsible persons, who expose puppies and dogs to all kinds of terrible things, then want to bring them to you, an infect yours.

Hi Konigtum, AKC says it does not require a Code of Ethics and does not support a dog club using one in a punative manner. Of course that is a CYOA for them, they go to any and all extremes to avoid being involved in any sort of lawsuit. Dog clubs can and do file charges against members for violating their Codes, AKC could care less. I figure if I want to be a member of a dog club that requires these provisions, then I will abide by them. The club I belonged to when I was breeding also said I could not act as a dog broker, sell to a dog broker or use for breeding any dog that had not been xrayed clear of HD unless I so stated in writing to the buyers.

KUDOS to the club Blitzen! The more regulations in place the more dumb*****get weeded out! LOL just read over my previous post and cannot believe I didn't get blasted for my spelling of "appklicable" oooops