Quite Disturbed... does this happen often ? - Page 5

Not all dogs come back. If you breed one litter per year the odds of getting each one back sooner or later is pretty much zero to none. If you breed more than that, the odds increase considerably. The "worst" litter I had for returned dogs was my last. There were 7 puppies and I took back and kept 2 of them, rehomed 3 more plus the dam that was co-owned with another breeder who suddenly decided to get out of dogs. I also had to pay the shipping to get 2 back from Alaska, 1 from Canada. As I stated before the only dog I didn't take back the minute the buyer contacted me ended up in a NY puppymill. The owner wouldn't even give me a week to build a new kennel. This was pick bitch, the buyer was so fussy she even brought her vet along to check the puppy before she took her home. Sadly she was also lacking in common sense, put the puppy in a corral with a herd of quarterhorses one of which stepped on her rear leg fracturing it requiring a pin. It was an epythiseal fracture, so of course that leg never grew as long as the others and she was lame. When she was around 18 months I was informed that she no longer wanted the dog since she was now into "animal power" and wanted a dog to weight pull. BTW this was not a cheap dog for the time, but it made no difference whatsoever to her and obviously there was little emotional attachment either. There are just as many bad owners as there are bad breeders, maybe more. I just could not deal with it any longer, did not want to continue to take back dogs since by that time I already had around 15 plus 2 boarders that were abandoned at my kennel. Thus no more puppies for me. Now when I want a dog I buy one. I just didn't have the right personality to breed dogs. I wanted to get out the M16 every time I got a dog back and it wasn't to be used on the dog either. Hopefully others find better owners than I did. I understand people take better care of their dogs these days.

There is a tremendous reward in breeding two fine animals and raising and caring for their offspring. One of my pups went to someone who had lost his wife 5 months ago. People now refer to him as "Tony and his dog". He has become a friend and little did I know my little pup moved up in the world into high society. Then there was a friend who cared for a dog with multiple health and temperament issues after having one of those super competition dogs for over 12 years. She wants to start herding with little Rosie. Rockie's second testicle did not decend until after leaving his whelping home. Well it did! He was going to be a pet anyway. Well now the owners are starting to train him and are looking into SchH. Schatzie wound up in a working home where the owner says she puts his workingline pups to shame. She sleeps on the bed and has wangled her way into her owners heart. Good thing I taught my pups how to do this! Lexie went to my best GSD friend ever. At four months she was retrieving the morning newspaper. I could go on. . . But I also have one that was returned. This little thing went VP1 at the South Central Regional USA show 2 weeks ago. There must be a God!!! Her name is Angelika and her name does not fit her drive. I know each one of these pups. I saw them arrive into this world and I will never not be responsible to them. Not to their owners, but to the dogs.

Your last sentence says it all, Sunny.

Blitzen wrote: I am wondering how many reading this thread now have the idea that they can breed more litters since it's OK to not take them back. Blitzen, what are you talking about? It has always been OK and standard practice not to take puppies or dogs back. Only in recent years has it become an issue on taking them back. This take it back campaign was started by a minority who believes all dogs should be spayed and neutered including yours. This way if a breeder takes puppies back, eventually they will bring something back home and wipe out the whole operation. Do you want these deceptive people controlling your rights and imposing phoney responsibilities on you? Think of the many stud owners do not breed to outside dogs? It is irresponsible to expect conscientious breeders to have blind faith and take puppies back. As you said in Germany, once sold, it is a done deal, no returns. Why do you think this is? No returns is true with most breeders regardless of breed. If you ever had a disease come to your home from someone else returning a puppy, you would know why, once sold, it stays sold is policy with the majority of breeders. It is and has always been OK, not to take them back. How many people reading this are now more informed on the horrors of taking them back?

Blitzen wrote: "I belong to a national breed club that can prefer charges against any member who refuses to take back a dog they have bred." Prove it. Where is this, what web address, what organization says this. Show us the proof. The GSDCA has nothing about that in its bylaws, and in its GSDCA Breeder's Code, section VI. "assure puppy buyers that if at any time the buyer has to place the dog, the breeder must be notified and given the opportunity to assist the buyer in placing the dog." Nothing about them "prefer" charges for refusing to take a dog back. I have not found anything on AKC web site, nothing on the WDA web site, and nothing on the UScA web site. Prove it

I sell someone a car for $1000 and 2 years later it breaks down, am i responsible for fixing it? Ok it's kind of different, a car and dog but sometimes it's impossible to take back a dog you have bred in the past, you have your own dogs and/or another litter, so bringing back a dog that could have allsorts of diseases may infact endanger your own kennels. Most responsible breeders would try their hardest to help find a new place or somewhere that could help out, if they had the room and time then they might even take the dog back but you have to understand it depends on all the circumstance surrounding the situation.

Blitzen wrote: "Ulli is from Germany I believe and IMO that puts him/her and you in different catagory than those here in the US who breed litter after litter, sell them to anyone with the money and then act all indignant when someone even dares to suggest that they might feel a little responsibility." Reply: Please take off your blinders and read what has been posted here. You keep skirting and avoiding the issue and rephrasing whenever someone has a point of view different that yours. Assuring puppy buyers that if at any time the buyer has to place the dog, the breeder / seller must be notified and given the opportunity to assist the buyer in placing the dog is responsible and a far cry from your "you have to take them back no mater what" or you are irresponsible. Once again, perhaps you should do a bit of research before you decide what is right and wrong for other people. Perhaps you should listen to people of experience who have been through the anguish of staying up all night trying to nurse sick puppies back to health after they have been exposed to disease from "off the yard," only to have them die in your arms at dawn. Maybe, just maybe, it is not an issue of selfishness and greed, but an issue of insuring that other innocent puppies are not hurt or killed due to careless negligence by new pet owners.

Blitzen wrote: I could never have sold any puppies from my original breed for breeding and show had I not offered a full written guarantee on hips, fertility and a few genetic diseases that were common in the breed. Everyone I know offers written guarantees and without one it is impossible to sell a dog to even a pet buyer. Breeders of GSD's seem to not have to do that and that was a big shock to me. I thought every breeder of all breeds offered written guarantees and took back their dogs. Guess I do live in LaLa land after all. Reply: The written contract / guarantee deal started heating up in the late 80s early 90s and actually were made to protect the breeder / seller not the buyer / consumer. Most still have many disclaimers and loopholes or actually say nothing at all. They are just a piece of paper to give the buyer a warm fuzzy that their money was better spent because of the contract / guarantee deal. The reason why, is all dogs and puppies are expected to be normal healthy animals without any unforeseen problems. When an unforeseen problem arises, the buyer / consumer blames the breeder / seller, The contract / guarantee deal basically outlines the responsibilities of the breeder / seller versus those of the buyer / consumer and are to protect and prevent the breeder / seller from being brought into court. They are loaded with ways circumvent any responsibility for anything to the breeder / seller. These breeder / sellers demand you sign the sales contract / guarantee deal in order to buy their dog or puppy. This is why many of your informed and astute buyers avoid any such contracts.

Now days Contract are getting........ There is a contract floating around (from a top Breeder of Czech imports) that is if the dog has DH and you want a replacement you have to PAY 25% (of what the do was bought for) restocking fee!!!! I have problems with that personally but then again I am buying a puppy from a freind that adopted that part of the contract. Again it goes back "HOW DO YOU WANNARTY HIPS" Most contracts are not even worth the paper they are written on. Unless they are certified and witnessed. I found that out the hard way.

Can someone please answer this question for me, since it is germain to the subject: How many dogs are euthanized--for reasons other than health or poor temperament--every year in Germany? Anyone know? How about the UK? Other EU countries? I don't know the figures, but I do know that they are one hell of a lot lower than the number destroyed in the US each year because their owners don't want them, didn't train them, can't afford them, and so forth. To the breeders who say they will not take a dog back once it's sold, and cite heartwrenching tales of losing litters and treating sick dogs: frankly, if you don't have the sense to isolate an incoming dog, ANY incoming dog, from your own dogs in-residence (especially litters!), until you're sure that the incoming dog is not carrying anything, then you're a fool. Plain and simple. Sounds harsh? Too bad--'cause it's nowhere NEAR as harsh as the feeling someone who volunteers with a breed rescue group gets when they have to walk down the line of cages or kennel runs at a shelter and try and decide which dog will get a second chance for their life, and which ones will probably end up dying for no other reason than their owners AND breeders failed them. Much as we try, rescue groups simply can't catch every dog that's let down by their owner and their breeder...and it's even worse when the same breeders' dogs end up in rescues time and again because that individual is only in it for the money and their ego. Do I presently breed? No. Have I done so in the past? Yes, though it was a different breed (and one that is known to have a problem with remaining at home if left off-lead, and known for being on the stubborn side as well). I took back dogs of my breeding any time it was necessary...because THAT'S how I was taught to operate by the breeders that I apprenticed under. They also taught me never to sell a pup or dog for more money than I could refund on a moment's notice, so I'd never be in a position of needing to get a dog I'd sold out of a bad situation and not being able to do so. Of course, these mentors were senior citizens back then, and of a generation that understood the meaning of the words 'responsibility' and 'ethical breeder'. The attitude of our species had changed radically since those days, it is clear; it is harder to find anyone who feels they are responsible for their actions or statements of late. (continued next post)