Well Bred VS. BYB - Page 1

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ShirosOhana

by ShirosOhana on 17 July 2017 - 18:07

I am somewhat new to owning GSD's. I see people all the time trying to sell "Well Bred" "show quality" "AKC" dogs on social media, local farmers markets, pet stores etc.
I was hoping to see examples of both well bred, and poorly bred dogs for my knowledge. I don't plan on breeding, ever. I am just curious, and want to compare to what I see being bred in my area.
I live in the united states so I see a lot of American bred with the straight backs, and very rarely do I see sloped back GSD's so I am not very familiar with them.
ShirosOhana

by ShirosOhana on 17 July 2017 - 19:07

http://www.southeasttexas.com/classifieds/detail.cfm?id=1425109&classified_code=dogs&zipcode=&distance=0

http://www.southeasttexas.com/classifieds/detail.cfm?id=1417429&classified_code=dogs&zipcode=&distance=0

These are the types of German Shepherds that are being bred and sold as AKC or "well bred" dogs in my area.
susie

by susie on 17 July 2017 - 19:07

AKC and SV do have different standards -
that said as long as the breeder follows the standard ( be it AKC or SV ) he isn´t "wrong".

Well bred?
This has nothing to do with AKC/SV, but with working ability, health, and conformation ( according to the breed standard/kennel club used ).

The German Shepherd Dog breed is a working dog breed, that said working ability and health are more than important, followed by conformation ( be it AKC or SV in your case ).

A BYB normally ( as always there are axceptions to the rule ) doesn´t care about health, working ability, or any conformation standard, but only about "easy breeding females", most often bred to the own "stud", because that´s a cheap breeding...

When you buy a pup out of an "SV" breeding the parents are
- health tested ( HD/ED )
- endurance tested ( bicycle, 30 km )
- BH titled
- titled ( IPO, RH2, or herding )
- shown ( at least G rated )
- breed surveyed

I believe in buying "locally", that said I´d visit as much breeders as possible.

Do they health test?
Do they train/title their dogs?
How do the dogs act ( happy, desinterested, afraid ) ?
Do I personally like the potential sire/dam?
Would "I" breed those dogs?
Is the breeder worth my money ( clean surrounding, happy dogs, not too many for one person )?

AKC is difficult - everything is "breeder´s choice" -
- the breeder may health test
- may train and title in any venue

But why ask for less? There are AKC breeders out there health testing, training, and titling their stock -
that´s the way to go ( at least for me ).

And, no, I don´t believe in ads and pictures - the most important part of a dog is the behavior/temperament, and no picture, not even a video clip, is able to show the real behavior/temperament of a dog -
even a long written subscribtion may not tell you the real truth about a dog.

Someone who "advertises" any item first and foremost wants to sell...
ShirosOhana

by ShirosOhana on 17 July 2017 - 19:07

I see what you are saying Susie. The main reason I am asking is because I hope to get another GSD soon, I have a neutered male that would benefit from having a companion since our older dog passed away a couple months ago. I do not want to buy from a BYB, well for many reasons even though I do not plan on ever breeding. I don't want to support or encourage what they are doing and I want to know that my puppy is going to be a healthy dog. The sellers in my area never mention anything about health testing of any kind. What kind of health test should I be looking/asking for?

susie

by susie on 17 July 2017 - 20:07

At least ask for HD / ED official ratings.
I like to see a DM test, too, but a lot of people differ in this case.

Important questions to ask:
Any bloat known in close ancestors?
Any allergies known in close ancestors?
Longvity of the line ( grandparents )?

In case you are willing to pay $ 1200 +, ask for a written health warranty including at least HD/ED ( 26 months, in the best case "ears up", "2 testicles down", but that´s less common.

The most important part: Take a look at the breeder´s property, don´t believe in pictures or descriptions...
Always ask yourself: Would I keep my dogs like this?
Xeph

by Xeph on 18 July 2017 - 02:07

When it comes to health testing, not as much is being done in this breed as probably should be. Most stop at hips and elbows. I do hips, elbows, DM, and eyes. I am debating starting heart screenings (Holter). Haven't decided yet.

American show lines are certainly around, just depends on where you look. I own and show them, and use them for herding trials and the like,
Reliya

by Reliya on 18 July 2017 - 05:07

Why not get a nice adult dog instead of a puppy? If your intentions aren't breeding, you could rescue or get a well bred dog that's retired/retiring from breeding/showing/working.
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 19 July 2017 - 05:07

Susie's post ^:   Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up. Tells it like it is !

One thing that occurs to me, ShirosOhana, is that if you are still unfamiliar with the terminology, you just may not realise that evidence of radiographic testing for Hip or Elbow Displasia comes with the OFA grading given (no one yet mentioned OFA per se).  So any breeder whose puppies you go to look at should at least be able and willing to produce that result for you to see, for both parents.  If not, run a mile.  Don't believe any nonsense about "its not come back yet"; they should not have gone ahead with the breeding unless they know both dogs are at least Good.  A decent caring breeder won't mind you asking such questions.

In fact, look for the breeders that also ask YOU for a lot of answers about how your puppy would be raised. Good luck in finding a breeder who puts the interest of the breed, and of his/her 'product' pups, over the mighty dollar.


Xeph

by Xeph on 19 July 2017 - 17:07

Fair is passing. There is nothing wrong with breeding OFA fair

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 19 July 2017 - 17:07

OK Xeph you know better than I do what goes for 'passing' in the US. [I think if I were there, I would still myself go with not breeding 'Fair' dogs, as a preference. But I accept that breeders may do this]. Thanks.
But I'm right, aren't I, that the OP ought to be able to ask to see an OFA grading before buying, if they go for a puppy ?

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