'Dog Whisperer' disciple denied Stokenchurch dog adoption - Page 1

'Dog Whisperer' disciple denied Stokenchurch dog adoption

9:00am Friday 30th August 2013 in News By Pete Grant
   Elke Hojer with one of her dogs, Lexi

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A DOG lover was dismayed to hear she was not allowed to adopt a new pet, after a rescue home disagreed with her "brutal" Dog Whisperer techniques.
Elke Hojer, who runs a rural TV and Film studio location near Saunderton, already has five dogs and went to Stokenchurch Dog Rescue to add to her pack.
But when she and her son took two of their dogs to meet pug-cross Piglet, Miss Hojer was told the centre did not approve of her controversial disciplining style.
The mother-of-two follows the teachings of TV ‘Dog Whisperer’ Cesar Millan, who believes humans must assert themselves as ‘pack-leader’ using a series of physical and psychological techniques.
 


  These included forcing a dog into submission by pinning it to the floor, a move Miss Hojer performed on her own pet during the meeting.
And the 49-year-old studio director, who has adopted from the centre before, is disappointed she wasn’t told about their stance on Mr Millan until after her visit.
She said: "I was told they disagreed with the technique and that I couldn’t have a dog from them.
"I have a very well-balanced pack of dogs. Yes, some of them are young and still learning but they are all very well behaved.
"The techniques of Cesar Millan are not aggressive, in fact they are very calm and a lot of it is based on psychology and body language.
"What they are doing at the centre is tremendous, that’s why I went there, but they have wasted my time and staff time just because we have a difference of opinion over disciplining.”
Mexican-born Mr Millan rose to fame with his TV show ‘The Dog Whisperer’, which features him dealing with aggressive dogs and helping the owners gain control over them.
Stokenchurch Dog Rescue have hit back over Miss Hojer’s criticism, calling Mr Millan’s techniques "brutal" and "out-dated".
Since opening in 1963, the home has successfully re-homed thousands of stray and unwanted dogs.
Joyce Marriott, chair of trustees, defended her staff’s decision and condemned techniques used by Miss Hojer during the meeting, which included forcing the animal to the ground and slapping its back legs.
“During the visit Miss Hojer advised us that she follows the Cesar Milan methods of training,” she said.
“These involve him, when he feels it is necessary, using electric shock collars, pronged choke collars, kicking the dogs’ flanks and other dominance techniques.
"Mr Millan has openly confirmed that he uses these out-dated and brutal techniques."
No-one at the rescue centre suggested Miss Hojer used any of the methods other than the ones witnessed during their meeting.
She added: "These methods have been condemned by countless dog lovers who, like us, practice and promote positive reward training.
"Our first duty is the wellbeing of our dogs, particularly bearing in mind that a lot have already been abused in previous homes.
"Therefore, given what the staff had witnessed, we did not think that this was the right family for this little dog."
Mrs Marriott has since contacted Miss Hojer personally, and added that the rescue centre’s website will now carry a message outlining its stance on dog discipline to avoid future disappointment.
 
 

..lol...

Wow!

Groan ...

Rescues have been heading further and further in this direction for about 10 years now.  I actually alluded to this somewhat in a past post here on the forum a few years ago:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=425364-can-dog-rescue-contracts-be-enforced

The motivations to "limit" whom adopts their dogs seem a little strange to me.  Many rescues do not have real, reliable funding sources and have basically taken a stance to "warehouse" dogs until the "right" person comes along.  Others have people "fostering" more than 3 dogs at a time in violation of local codes and almost all rescues now demand that the dogs live inside AND that people do not have small children.  By the time most are done "screening" I really have no idea who is left that fits being their "ideal" adopter.  For the larger rescues that have a consistent source of funding, I fully understand the motivation to warehouse dogs, but the smaller rescues "copy catting" the big boys seems to be pretty short sighted and ignorant of the finances needed to house animals for a long period of time.

Also in general articles with the headline "Are dog rescues too picky" have greatly proliferated the web in the last couple of years, so its a trend even the general dog owning population has noticed.  These picky rescues may actually be hurting themselves BIG TIME in the long run because eventually people will refuse to donate to rescues after having been burned for trying to do something they "thought" was the right thing to do, adopting

I completely agree with momo. I had urged a family member of mine to adopt from a small foster based rescue (as he was looking for a companion for his dog) and we went through all the trouble of filling out lengthy apps, multiple phone interviews with other family members and friends, etc. I understand trying to ensure that the animal is going into a good home but a lot of rescues have a snobby attitude and treat the adopter as if they don't know anything- even when they ask legit, reasonable questions for the animal's wellbeing. The one we had an experience with kept asking for more references, saying that the person they called never picked up - even though we checked and our friend never received any calls. They wouldn't even try again or confirm they dialed the right number, just demanded more. They also refused to set up a time to let our dog meet with the potential dog to see if they got along. It was such a negative experience that I will never again recommend anyone I know to adopt from -any- small rescue (I will still recommend shelters, I've had great experiences with most of them). I'm also pretty sure that we weren't the only ones that decided to turn away from the rescue because the pups we were interested in were at the rescue before they were born (mom was a stray) and when I checked their website 4 months later, all pups were still available. Hard to believe that absolutely no one was interested in adopting little itty bitty pups that needed a home.

If it came down to getting another dog, I'd rather buy from a breeder than deal with a rescue again and that's not exactly helping homeless animals in the long run.

Ive been rescuing for 10 years and I'm kinda shaking my head about your post momosgarage. How many rescues have you worked for? There are good and bad rescues just like anything else. Your comments honestly are not what I have experienced over the years so while others may agree with you, I do not.

Just in case anyone were to ever adopt to me, I dont adopt to families with small kids either. I get dogs from the shelter only and I have no idea how the dog is with kids. Why guess with a kid so I require the kids be 12 or older. Oh and I live in Vegas where the summers reach 115. Do I want the dog living outside when the dog has been living inside with me and no time to acclimate to the heat. Have I turned people away for it? Hell yes I have. The dog would literally cook. I don't want to be outside so why should I make them be outside. The 10 yo shepherd I have now and decided to keep, stays outside for about 3 minutes and is scratching to go inside. Cant blame him and usually right behind him. If my chickens could come inside they would. They stand at my slider and peck to come in. You make the comments sound like there is just no good reason for someone to ask what they do.

I always say, if you don't like it, then change it.

Barb

Usually, I find myself aligning with the adoptee -- having had lousy experiences with rescue groups myself. However, in this case, I find myself siding with the rescue. I am NOT a fan of the over-zealous "dominance" acts supported by Cesar Millan. Whether one uses the pack-model or parent-model theory, excessive force does not improve the handler-dog bond. I am not against corrections, but I think Cesar's whole "dominance" thing is overboard. He subdued a dog, and the tip of the dog's pink was extended from the shaft. He said something like "he is aroused because he likes dominating!" Sounds more like projecting to me; it's known dogs often flash the tip of their pink when they're under stress (positive or negative).

(Either than, or every male I own finds car rides an erotic adventure. )


For the most part though, when it comes to rescue groups, I agree with Momo.
I've had lousy experiences with rescues, and at this point I'd rather get a dog from a breeder, or a no-screening animal control facility (and take my chances). The attitude I've encountered with rescues has been elitist and condescending from several facilities that I've contacted over the various years, in various places. 

My issues with their requirements are: 

1) A fenced yard is -required!-
A fence is not a magic security device. It must be properly maintained, checked for rotten planks, unraveling wire, etc. The simple act of -having- a fence does NOT mean anything, other than a potential false sense of security that the dog will stay contained. Cursory visual inspections aren't good enough. A fence must be routinely, and thoroughly checked for integrity. Dogs can climb fences, dig under them, break through them... a random fence is one of the least effective ways of securing a dog, in my observation. 
-- In my opinion, the real benefit to a fence is keeping people, dogs, and other animals out!

2) All the potential adopter's pets must be spay/neutered.
That should hardly be relevant if the animal I'm looking at is already spay/neutered. And even if it weren't, I am most definitely not going to be casing the local rescue shelter for potential breeding stock, especially if I'm looking for nice, gentle mutt. I have higher standards in my breeding program than that. I am not spay/neutering my dogs just to have a chance at adopting a heinz-57.

3) Kennels.
I have kennel runs. The dogs are out in them at least part of the time. The runs provide a secure place for my dogs to stretch their legs when I can't be hovering over them. It doesn't mean my dogs are locked in their kennels all the time, and forgotten. My dogs get out for hikes, swims, the occasional road trip across country, and of course, lounging on the couch with me in the evenings. 
-- Going back to the fenced yard bit, a fenced yard doesn't mean the dog will be part of the family or interacted with. He might be put out, tied to a tree, and largely ignored, fence or no fence. However, I've found lots of shelters resent the idea of kennels, which ironic, considering a proper kennel (with roof) is probably the safest and most effective way to contain a dog.

4) Home visits.
This won't happen. I don't mind friends, family, and clients on my property; but the idea of someone coming over with the sole purpose of assessing whether or not I am capable of owning a dog is offensive to say the least. I am not interested in adopting from any rescue group that mandates a home inspection. I am at least as qualified to own a dog as the people I'd be adopting said dog from.




I don't have an issue with the character reference phone calls, nor do I have a problem with requiring kids be above a certain age. I like the idea of finding the right home for the right dog, but the rescues I've encountered take that mentality to the Nth degree; to the point they turn down potential adopters who would've provided a great home for a dog!

@Bhaugh You can shake your head all you want.  I was simply pointing out the publics CURRENT perception of rescues.  Newsflash rescuers, the outlook is NOT good.  I never said I agreed with Ceasar Milan's training methods, I didn't even mention him in my first post, nor did I say anything about whether Elke Hojer should be able to get a rescue dog or not.  THAT WAS NOT MY POINT.  jc.carroll, pretty much covered the same issues I have with Rescues and all are completely reasonable.

Rescuers need to FACE REALITY, the damage has already been done to their public persona, justified or not.  Its one thing for experienced dog owners and former/current kennel owners to complain about rescue practices on a advanced amateur/professional dog forum like this, BUT its a whole different thing for REGULAR dog owners to post something like "Are dog rescues too picky" ALL OVER THE WEB.  10 years ago you might find one or two articles and maybe a dozen posts with headings like "Are dog rescues too picky", NOW the posts are in the thousands and the articles topping Google are approaching 100.  If Yahoo posted an article and has 1,500 comments, that means it a MAIN STREAM topic now and a CLEAR point of contention with the general population: 

http://shine.yahoo.com/pets/dog-rescue-groups-too-picky-130600859.html

The public is voting with their feet and voicing their opinion on the web, the rescues are losing this battle.

Same problems over here...
The ( almost only) "ladies" responsible for the private AND official rescues in Germany do behave like god, as soon as people are interested in a dog or a cat...
I came to the conclusion that they don´t want to make the animal feel good but to make THEMSELVES feel good.
They are important, and they are the best humans on earth, able to judge about the rest of us.
I´ll never get it...
A friend of mine tried to adopt a sheltie, he does own shelties for decades, his dogs are with him 24 hours the day. When the "ladies" of the rescue heard about this, he wasn´t allowed to get the dog in question. He is a mechanic, and they were worried about oil and gas!
This guy wanted to give a dog the best home a dog is able to get, he owns dogs ( all of them became very old,they get vet care and high quality food ) for decades, but he wasn´t good enough for a 3.5 years old rescue...