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by fawndallas on 13 May 2013 - 11:05
What are your experiences with this dog food? I know all the benefits of a raw diet, but at this time it is just not feasible for me to go to a 100% raw diet, so I use kibble.
My vet suggested this line to see if my dogs' stools would firm up. In that regard, the food worked out very well. Stool and coats look good. I do notice that my dogs have significantly more stool now though. Before, on Purina One, my dogs would have a stool once, maybe twice a day; not a good consistency though. On 4 Health Grain free, the consistency is so much better, but now the dogs have a stool 4 - 5 times a day and it is a full amount each time.
I have read somewhere in the past that when a dog food is well digested, the stools should be few and a good consistency (not runny, soft, or hard).
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Additional information:
Weight is good.
I have 3 dogs on this brand; 1 eats the white fish and the other 2 are on the chicken. This stool increase is the same for all 3 dogs.
Soft, cow paddy like stools have stopped 100% for all dogs.
They have been on this brand now for 3 months. Stool increase started about 6 weeks in.
No other health issues are seen
water intake is normal
Stool will turn white if I leave it out more than 2 days. As there is so much now, I have to clean up every day though; and in the smaller kennel, twice a day.
My vet suggested this line to see if my dogs' stools would firm up. In that regard, the food worked out very well. Stool and coats look good. I do notice that my dogs have significantly more stool now though. Before, on Purina One, my dogs would have a stool once, maybe twice a day; not a good consistency though. On 4 Health Grain free, the consistency is so much better, but now the dogs have a stool 4 - 5 times a day and it is a full amount each time.
I have read somewhere in the past that when a dog food is well digested, the stools should be few and a good consistency (not runny, soft, or hard).
~~~~~~~~~~~
Additional information:
Weight is good.
I have 3 dogs on this brand; 1 eats the white fish and the other 2 are on the chicken. This stool increase is the same for all 3 dogs.
Soft, cow paddy like stools have stopped 100% for all dogs.
They have been on this brand now for 3 months. Stool increase started about 6 weeks in.
No other health issues are seen
water intake is normal
Stool will turn white if I leave it out more than 2 days. As there is so much now, I have to clean up every day though; and in the smaller kennel, twice a day.
by Micaho on 13 May 2013 - 12:05
fawndallas,
Sounds like 4Health is full of fiber which is not digestible but absorbs moisture to firm up stool. That's why you're getting increased volume. Some people like fiber (e.g., for people), some don't (since theoretically dogs don't eat much fiber in the wild, so it may put a burden on their digestive system.) 4Health was made for Tractor Supply by Diamond and was included in their salmonella recall last year. They may have swirched manufacturers. It is pretty highly rated for meat content on some sites (http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-dry/). I have not used it but have talked to people who like it a lot.
Sounds like 4Health is full of fiber which is not digestible but absorbs moisture to firm up stool. That's why you're getting increased volume. Some people like fiber (e.g., for people), some don't (since theoretically dogs don't eat much fiber in the wild, so it may put a burden on their digestive system.) 4Health was made for Tractor Supply by Diamond and was included in their salmonella recall last year. They may have swirched manufacturers. It is pretty highly rated for meat content on some sites (http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-dry/). I have not used it but have talked to people who like it a lot.
by Jenni78 on 13 May 2013 - 14:05
Your dogs still have whatever problem, likely giardia or similar, that was causing the loose stools. You're simply masking the problem with artificial stool hardeners that cheap foods put in to fool pet owners into thinking that they're feeding a good quality food because the stools look great.
I'd put them on GOOD food- not Pro Plan, not 4Health, not any mass-produced commercially available crap, but a really good food, treat them for giardia with a long course of fenbendazole, follow it up with strong probiotics and then monitor stools in the absence of stool hardeners.
Not that you should believe anything I tell you...........but that's what I would do.
I'd put them on GOOD food- not Pro Plan, not 4Health, not any mass-produced commercially available crap, but a really good food, treat them for giardia with a long course of fenbendazole, follow it up with strong probiotics and then monitor stools in the absence of stool hardeners.
Not that you should believe anything I tell you...........but that's what I would do.
by melba on 13 May 2013 - 15:05
I have 2 long term boards that are on it. Jenni, the bm amount and frequency is spot on with these 2 dogs. One is a GSD, the other doberman X pointer. When switched to 50/50 raw/kibble, stool is considerably better, smaller, well formed.
Melissa
Melissa
by Jenni78 on 13 May 2013 - 16:05
She said they were having consistent cow patty stools before, which is why I said whatever was causing that is likely still there- the fiber is just masking it. Either way, get them off the crap and see if there's still a problem is my take on it. Did you change kibble too or just add raw?
by Micaho on 13 May 2013 - 16:05
My dogs had cow patty stools on any Diamond manufactured kibble. EPI and giardia were ruled out. Then they did the recalls and I stopped using the Natural Balance/ Wellness/Solid Gold products and the poop has firmed up without further treatment. Dogs can react to different ingredients in different brands without having a separate illness, possibly just a food intolerance.
Diamond products provide copper in two forms, sulfate and proteinate. Manufacturers said this was to ensure adequate amounts of this important mineral. We use copper sulfate to kill algae in the lake. I wonder if it affects intestinal flora? And why is Diamond food so low in copper that it needs to be supplemented twice? There is such a thing as copper toxicity. Well, no one agrees with me, but my dogs are better off on other brands with only one form of copper added. JMO.
fawndallas, keep track of your dogs' weight. Animals lose weight on high fiber foods because fiber is filling without providing many calories since the food moves through the dogs' systems more quickly. Actually, the fiber content of 4Health is not very high, but they do list several fiber sources as ingredients.
Diamond products provide copper in two forms, sulfate and proteinate. Manufacturers said this was to ensure adequate amounts of this important mineral. We use copper sulfate to kill algae in the lake. I wonder if it affects intestinal flora? And why is Diamond food so low in copper that it needs to be supplemented twice? There is such a thing as copper toxicity. Well, no one agrees with me, but my dogs are better off on other brands with only one form of copper added. JMO.
fawndallas, keep track of your dogs' weight. Animals lose weight on high fiber foods because fiber is filling without providing many calories since the food moves through the dogs' systems more quickly. Actually, the fiber content of 4Health is not very high, but they do list several fiber sources as ingredients.
by fawndallas on 13 May 2013 - 18:05
If there was an underlying condition like Giardia, wouldn't the effects of the new food (firming up the stools) only be temporary?
As for good kibble, my choices are pretty limited (short of ordering it over the internet and having it delivered). Here is what I have (not listing the junk food):
IAMS
4 Health
Purina One
Blue Buffalo / Wilderness - None of the three dogs will touch it
Taste of the Wild - None of my dogs will touch it; even Bane who inhales everything
Purina Pro Plan - caused loose stools that would fluxs between firm and cow patty for all 3 dogs
As for good kibble, my choices are pretty limited (short of ordering it over the internet and having it delivered). Here is what I have (not listing the junk food):
IAMS
4 Health
Purina One
Blue Buffalo / Wilderness - None of the three dogs will touch it
Taste of the Wild - None of my dogs will touch it; even Bane who inhales everything
Purina Pro Plan - caused loose stools that would fluxs between firm and cow patty for all 3 dogs
by melba on 13 May 2013 - 19:05
I added raw in the am, still on the same kibble in the pm.
Melissa
Melissa
by Eldee on 13 May 2013 - 20:05
Go to dogfoodadvisor.com and check out the foods you have listed.
by fawndallas on 13 May 2013 - 20:05
Great website. I am looking at it now. Thanks
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