Questions from a GSD owner wannabe - Page 1

Hi, I am new to this forum & dog ownership. I am not looking to add to our family for another year, but in my eagerness I am trying to gather as much information as I can on this breed from experienced owners. If there is anyone willing to answer my questions, I would greatly appreciate it.

To start, although I have never owned a dog personally (my mom's dogs don't count) I am an animal lover by nature and have been around them my entire life. When I left home at 18yrs I had hoped I would soon be able to bring a pet into my life, but with my full-time work schedule and my desire for a larger breed dog I did not feel comfortable making that commitment. I knew that I would not be able to provide a large dog with the time and attention it deserved. 5yrs later, I am without work commitments (with the exception of caring for my son/husband) and feel capable of devoting a good amount of time to a dog. Now, from reading a few posts (not anything recent admittedly) I get the feeling that a lot of people feel that first-time owners shouldn't start with a GSD. I have no desire to start out with a smaller/more managable dog. That being said, I want the best for any animal that will be under my care, which is why I am doing what I can a year in advance to prepare myself. I will always keep the advice of more experienced individuals in mind. If within the next year I don't feel that I would be able to affectively cultivate the skills necessary to care for this breed, I will re-evaluate my choice. So here are my questions:

1) What does a typical day/week look like for you and your GSD? How much time daily do you spend exercising and training your dog? What is a good ratio of formal to informal training?

2) I do not consider myself an authoritative person and if I had to be completely honest, I would say that I lack some basic leadership skills. Can anyone give me tips/advice on how I can cultivate these skills in regards to this breed? Would a good trainer be able to help me establish a strong foundation with my puppy in addition to helping me overcome my own shortcomings? I do not want to have any ranking issues with a strong dog later on...

3) One of the reasons I want a GSD is b/c I am interested in pursuing training for personal/family protection. This is not a dire need so of course I would be starting out with a puppy. Now, I am a petite woman who enjoys early morning jogs. In addition to that I have a small child and my husband (who is serving in the military) can spend anywhere from a few weeks to several months away from home any given year. I would feel considerably safer if I had a well trained animal looking after our best interests. I don't just want a formidable looking pet; I want a dog that will stick up for me and my child and attack an attacker if it ever comes down to that. How much time can I expect to put into this type of training? On average, how much money can I expect to spend on a monthly basis if this is something that I end up pursuing?

4) Lastly, I get a lot of flack from some family members who feel I should go with a rescue dog as opposed to a breeder and it has me slightly conflicted. If I weren't interested in a dog for protection, I would mostly likely go with a rescue, but as it stands that is not the case. I do realize that there are a lot of rescue animals out there that would make great, protective members of a family, but I am hesitant. I want to do what I can to avoid potential debilitating/life threatening hereditary defects from irresponsible breeding. Is there some flaw in my thinking that purchasing from a good breeder would give me the highest probability of getting a mentally/physically sound dog? I do understand that buying from a breeder doesn't guarentee a healthy dog.

Wow, that was long... If you made it this far, thanks for sticking it out. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Des
A good solution for you might be to find a breeder with a titled
'middle aged' dog they are retiring from their breeding program. 

The dog will already have training, will thrive from the one on one
with you, and will be a perfect teacher for you to learn the ropes with!
You will be able to find yourself a good schutzhund club and go
learn to handle the dog, then from there, a good helper can do some
simple civil work with the dog to give you an added 'edge'. That said,
most people with bad intentions tend to shy away from those holding
a large GSD on the end of a leash.  Training fees will vary geographically,
what is paid on either end of the coast varies drastically to what is
paid in the mid-west. You will get a good number of years experience
from a well trained dog, and by then, you can find a nice puppy and
start the cycle again. Those retired dogs have a LOT to offer a new
owner. They tend to absolutely thrive in a one on one home!

Des87 Hello and welcome to the forum.  Fully expect other people
will have more to say to you in answer to your questions, but until
they do, can I just say how refreshing it is to see someone asking
these questions BEFORE they get close to actually aquiring the
dog.  I really commend you on your forethought, and your honest
statements about your abilities and experience.

In my own opinion, FWIW,  it is reasonable for Shepherd people to
think that the GSD isn't really a 'first timers' dog.  Lets face it there
would be a LOT less young GSDs in Shelters & Rescues if it WAS
an 'easy' breed.  It is very intelligent and very trainable ... if you do know
what you are doing and how to stop that intelligence leading the dog
along wrong paths.  And if you can keep the dog convinced of your
leadership abilities.

The GSD is also a large breed and therefore pretty strong and powerful
as with any big 'guarding' dog, so there is quite a bit of room for things
to get very bad very quickly if you don't know what you are doing;  
especially if you decide to put it through training resulting in the loss
of 'bite inhibition' because you want the PP angle.

And if things get messed up, its the dog that suffers.

You do not say how well you know GSDs - or dogs generally, outside your
own homelife and family pets.  You just say you like dogs and have been
'around them' all your life - that could mean a whole range of experiences,
from a great deal because you e.g. volunteered at a shelter, down to 'not a
lot'.  You also say you are 'petite', though you jog so you should be fairly
fit - but this all means you are at a disadvantage in big dog handling and
training;  not that we should not all be primarily using 'motivational' training
methods, but there are still occasions where you cannot afford to let a GSD
get the better of you on sheer physical strength.  Those 'ranking issues' you
referred to may be present earlier rather than 'later on' !!

So ideally I always prefer to hear from someone thinking of having a GSD
that they are already well used to handling and training some smaller and
lighter canine first,  and have actually been in circumstances where they
have been around quite a lot of other peoples' GSDs for some length of time.

To give quick answers to some of your other queries -  the puppy will need
careful supervision, round the clock almost at first, to ensure it gets the
right amounts of food, playtime, sleep, socialisation with dogs and people,
house-training, medical care etc.  The older dog, having been given all the
above, will eventually need a very minimum of a full hour walking exercise
per day; plus as much time as you can devote to playing ball in your garden,
training exercises and so on -  it is good that you've said you can now spend
lots of time with the dog, 'cos you get out what you put in !

Have you read any of the better breed specific books on the breed, I don't mean
just general maintainence  manuals with GSD tagged onto the title ?  You will
find such reading repays your time in understanding the breed, its likelihood
to get specific ailments and what you should or should not expect of breeders.
You already have a grasp that there are specific pitfalls in health etc to watch
out for, which is excellent.  Further reading, - and looking at a range of previous
threds on here -  will gear you up to deciding exactly what type of GSD you want,
there are a variety of possibilities in that factor alone.   I wish you good luck in
your decision-making, and eventual purchase.

Workingdogz just made an excellent suggestion, if you can sort out such help.

Linda Swift.

I also think workingdogz made an excellent suggestion for your circumstances.  Many good, responsible breeders have well trained adult dogs who's health and temperament status is already known, be they retired dogs, dogs still in good breeding age/condition (but no reason why they really have to be bred, they can be kept as pets only) or young adult dogs who just didn't cut it as breeding quality, but are still healthy and good tempered.  I personally think that a good adult dog makes a better match for a first time owner than a good puppy does.  

I think an ideal match for you would be an adult dog who has already had training, possibly even titled, and health testing (hips, elbows, DM, and passes regular vet exams.)  A dog that is calm, friendly, social and very willing to work (strong desire to please.)  
The best personal protection dogs are the ones that are social, safe to take in public and go with you 24/7 if needed.  A dog with a stable mind that is able to discern between a friendly person, neutral person or dangerous person and treat them accordingly.   My best personal protection dogs have always been my friendliest dogs too, but they were more than willing and ready to challenge a threat when needed and to bite when asked.    

It would be a good idea for you to find a local schutzhund or psa club and visit (without your child, so you don't have any distraction) and observe the training and work before getting a dog, so that you can get a feel for it and decide if this is what you want to do.   You can also get in touch with a dog trainer and/or behaviorist to get some training for you on body language and the energy you project to work with a dog.  It's not about the size, it's about the calm, confident leadership.  

My suggustion is since you have some time on your hands now go to your local pound/ AC, rescues org. and ask to help out. Reason for this is simple, you need help understanding the breed and handling, what better way then to work dog of all sizes, temperaments, and see the problems that can happen before you get one? This will let you see how much energy/drive you can handle/want,  how much defense you can handle/want, what type of temperament you can handle/want and so on..  Then when the time is right you have a better understanding of what you want in YOUR puppy /dog. JMPO

Thanks everyone for you input, it is very much appreciated.

Hundmutter, to adress your question about my experience with dogs: It's very limited to being around the house pets of family and friends. I have done a little dogsitting (several years ago) for a neighbor who owned 3 adult rottweilers. They were outside dogs and really all I did was make sure they had food in their kennels. The alpha male was very territorial and appeared to be somewhat aggressive, but he made no attempt to bite. I have never dealt with a German Shepherd. My comment about being around dogs all my life was more about giving you a background on myself as a person, not so much my experience. I was actually hoping that I could start volunteering with a GSD rescue organization and become a foster family for GSD waiting to be adopted. That way I end up with firsthand experience and I can know with 100% certainty that this is what I want. I do not want my dog to become a shelter dog, which is why I have waited so long to become an owner. EkvonEarnhardt, I did not really think to volunteer at a local shelter or Humane Society, so I will probably do that first before going the foster home route. Thanks for that suggestion. No I haven't read any books about German Shepherds. Thus far, my research information has come from internet searches and online forums. I'm sure that I can find one through a google search, but does anyone have any suggestions as far as books are concerned? Also, I have breifly contemplated purchasing an older dog as opposed to a puppy but was always under the impression that for a new owner, it was not a good idea to get an older dog because he would be more difficult to control. That doesn't seem to be the case here. So, if I were to go with the middle-aged dog, as long as I bonded well with it and we continued training together, it would actually be easier for me to control/handle than a puppy?

Des87,

Can you check your personal messages?

GSD Admin, I did and have sent you a PM back. Sorry for the wait, I am still trying to get used to this site.

Des - yes, either of the GSD Rescue or general shelter ideas, to volunteer 
your time, would be very good.  Most shelters have a fair few GSDs or GSmixes
through their doors;  and these centres usually give you a chance to handle
different ages, weights and temperaments of all dogs.  So whichever you can
get to easily should be fine.  Especially in the context of your limited contacts with
dogs - pity you didn't get more practice in with your client's rotties, they are much
the same as Shepherds for weight and temperament so that would have been
great experience.

Books:  you may need to go the 2nd hand route for some, via Amazon maybe.
Any books by   Captain Von Stephaniz,  Malcolm Willis, Brian Wootton, Nem &
Percy Elliott, Fred Lanting,  A K Nicholas, J Delinger, Goldbecker & Hart, J W
Rodger,  Louis Donald ,  M Pickup/J Schwabacher/T Gray, Jim Engle ... will help
you to understand the GSD;  just go for books by one or more of them, rather
than the lightweight stuff in your local pet store.

Enjoy !

My first dog was a working line GSD.  My family never owned a dog growing up (we all like dogs but parents could not afford it and did not have time for the responsibility).  I got a 3 year old spayed female dog from her breeder (who had bred, raised, and started training her and bred at least one litter from her).  It was probably the best thing for me.  I didn't have to deal with puppy stuff and was able to jump right into training.  When I picked her up at the breeder's house I arranged to have a private lesson with an agility trainer (the breeder had a training facility).  Two weeks later we started obedience and agility classes.  Oh, before I picked her up I had audited an obedience class at the Humane Society (they let me pay half and just watch). I ended up putting about a dozen new titles on that dog.  She just passed away yesterday morning (she is the dog in my avatar picture).  I don't think that a first time dog owner can't handle a GSD or shouldn't get a puppy but I did have a great experience getting a healthy adult dog and doing as many types of training and dog sports as I could (obedience, agility, herding, rally-o, Schutzhund, SDA...).  I'm pretty introverted (though I work in customer service where I am outgoing but it burns me out so on my own I'm pretty quiet) and having her helped me break into different dog training circles and learn so much about the breed and training in general.  It definitely informed my decision and research into my next dog, who I bought as a puppy.