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by Mindhunt on 18 October 2012 - 21:10
New research is showing that the concept of "alpha" may not be entirely correct. Even L. David Mech, the well respected Wolf researcher has published an article stating he was incorrect in his original "Alpha Wolf" theory.
So what do you think of these articles?
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die
www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf
So what do you think of these articles?
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die
www.4pawsu.com/alphawolf.pdf
by Ibrahim on 18 October 2012 - 23:10
While dominance/alpha theory might be wrong I didn't find any solid proof of that in the article, but it sure is a interesting read, thank you for sharing.
by GSDguy08 on 18 October 2012 - 23:10
I have no intentions of reading it, but no one can say that one specific "theory" or method will work on every dog anyway, regardless if someone says the "theory" is wrong. What works for one dog will not always work for the next dog.....anyone who trains dogs knows that.
by BlackthornGSD on 18 October 2012 - 23:10
Here's some more up-to-date links on the topic (there are a number of additional links within each article, too):
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my-puppy-my-self/201202/mea-culpa-mech-apology-bekoff
In his post, Dr. Bekoff pointed me (and other readers) to a 2010 paper written by Dr. Mech and H. Dean Cluff ("Prolonged Intensive Dominance Behavior Between Gray Wolves, Canis lupus") in which they write: "Dominance is among the most pervasive and important behaviors of wolves in a pack."
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201202/social-dominance-is-not-myth-wolves-dogs-and-other-animals
Dominance surely is a slippery concept with respect to how it's expressed and how individual variations in social dominance influence behavior. A narrow definition doesn't necessarily hold across species, within species, or across different contexts. Many discussions in which the broad concept of social dominance is criticized are very informative, but to claim that dominance is a myth flies in the face of what we know about the subtle, fleeting, and complex social relationships and on-going social dynamics of many group living species.
Christine
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my-puppy-my-self/201202/mea-culpa-mech-apology-bekoff
In his post, Dr. Bekoff pointed me (and other readers) to a 2010 paper written by Dr. Mech and H. Dean Cluff ("Prolonged Intensive Dominance Behavior Between Gray Wolves, Canis lupus") in which they write: "Dominance is among the most pervasive and important behaviors of wolves in a pack."
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201202/social-dominance-is-not-myth-wolves-dogs-and-other-animals
Dominance surely is a slippery concept with respect to how it's expressed and how individual variations in social dominance influence behavior. A narrow definition doesn't necessarily hold across species, within species, or across different contexts. Many discussions in which the broad concept of social dominance is criticized are very informative, but to claim that dominance is a myth flies in the face of what we know about the subtle, fleeting, and complex social relationships and on-going social dynamics of many group living species.
Christine
by Mindhunt on 19 October 2012 - 00:10
Not saying the concept of dominance is a bad thing (if done with respect for the dog) or that dogs should not respect their handlers. I agree with you GSDguy08, I believe the dog dictates the training used and that dogs should want to listen out of respect not fear. I also believe you can never have too many tools for your tool box.
Keep in mind my introduction to dog training many years ago was for me to "alpha roll" my male GSD the first day when he was more interested in the GSD next to him than listening to my command and I "needed to establish my alpha position". I felt it was wrong and refused to do it, asking to have the time to teach him commands in a less distracting environment (he was really interested in the other dog lol). I was told that my behavior is why women are too soft and weak to have "real" dogs and I will never be able to handle "real" working dogs.
My behaviorist friend sent me these as food for thought, she trains K9s and works on K9 aggression issues, sadly many of the issues are due to improper training and improper e-collar use. Although she uses positive methods, there are consequences for disobedience.
Thanks Blackthorn for the updated article links
Keep in mind my introduction to dog training many years ago was for me to "alpha roll" my male GSD the first day when he was more interested in the GSD next to him than listening to my command and I "needed to establish my alpha position". I felt it was wrong and refused to do it, asking to have the time to teach him commands in a less distracting environment (he was really interested in the other dog lol). I was told that my behavior is why women are too soft and weak to have "real" dogs and I will never be able to handle "real" working dogs.
My behaviorist friend sent me these as food for thought, she trains K9s and works on K9 aggression issues, sadly many of the issues are due to improper training and improper e-collar use. Although she uses positive methods, there are consequences for disobedience.
Thanks Blackthorn for the updated article links
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