Opinions on Video - Page 1

Background to video:

Male German Shorthair Pointer, 4 years old.

Male Shiloh Shepherd, 2 1/2 years old, recently rehomed. The previous owners didn't give the dog much attention especially after a second child came along. He has not been well socialized with other dogs, either.

I think both dogs are neutered (need confirmation of that, though.)

I am interested in getting people's opinions as to what the body language of the two dogs is saying. (I already have some opinions of my own, but don't want to say what they are just yet.)

Also, suggestions are welcome re. training/socializing the younger dog.

The older dog belongs to his brother (thank goodness!)  This is the third time they've been together.

Edit: It's only the first video on that page that I'm interested in.

http://www.youtube.com/user/tryingtolearn100

Edit
 

Well Sun:  all I see is trouble escalating; and I would guess neither boys have been properly socialized and the shepherd is young yet.  Sooooooooooo, that's about all I can offer at this time.  Nan

Over 400 views, and only one opinion?  C'mon, you're not going to hurt my feelings. I'm posting this on behalf of someone else, who is asking for help.

I think the younger dog is being a PITA, and is liable to get its clock cleaned if it doesn't smarten up!

And the owner needs to step in and correct it before that happens, and he finds himself with some very expensive vet bills!

The shepherd is clearly playing, it is the pointer who is unsure or doesn't want to play. The human is misreading signals, if he doesn't want the dogs to bite in play, he shouldn't put them together. I have a female sable shepherd who plays similar to this with my male shepherd who is much larger and clearly dominate at other times. She initiates this kind of play, biting his checks, neck and hocks then they take turns chasing one another. I see in the video plenty of signals the shepherd is giving of submission and play. Play includes in it natural displays of aggression. I see no problem with the shepherd, but I do wonder if the pointer is well versed in canine body language.

Another thought, if this is the pointer's yard he may think this younger visitor rude.

I will give this a try, for what it's worth. I watched this video a few times. It seems originally (in the garage) the Shiloh wanted to play and wasn't really obnoxious at that point, but the GSHP clearly rejected him and rather aggressively ran him off.  Not sure why, but either GSHP sensed something in the Shiloh which caused him to refuse to engage in play or he just didn't want to be bothered or maybe HE has issues too. After being rejected by the GSHP the Shiloh seemed conflicted. He wanted to play, but felt stressed. Intense tail wagging can indicate stress. His hackles were up too, which indicates some fear and/or insecurity. Even so, the Shiloh wasn't going to give up trying to play and then he started to become frustrated because he wasn't getting what he wanted, therefore his behavior escalated. My guess is the Shiloh was not socialized with other dogs and doesn't really know how to respectfully interact. He also doesn't know when it's time to back off and/or he's just very strong willed. 

If I was dealing with this situation I'd start walking the dogs on leash together on a regular basis and take things very slowly. I'd expose them to each other in various environments, but always on leash for a while. I certainly would not turn them lose together again for a long time and NEVER (even if things eventually seem ok) without supervision. If in the future they are put together off leash the owners need to intervene immediately when things start to escalate and be firm about it. That type of interaction can not be allowed to continue. I would be very cautious because this seems like a situation that could definitely get ugly and at that point there may never be much hope for a harmonious relationship.

We have a Aussie mix right now that we are fostering and she exhibited similar behavior to the Shiloh's. She had not been socialized with other dogs and had no boundaries and she was (still is) also very tenacious. Our dogs are very laid back and would not behave as the GSHP, but as soon as the Aussie started showing inappropriate behavior I corrected her immediately and very firmly. There was no question that I would not accept the behavior and I was also going to make sure she would't harrass my dogs. She was very unstable and unpredictable at that point and even if our other dogs decided to engage in play I thought she might turn on him/her.  We've had the Aussie for six months and she is now lose in the house with my other dogs, but I never leave her alone with them. Our Shiloh and the Aussie now play together at times and the Aussie has learned she must have boundaries. She has come a VERY long way since we got her, but I have been very careful to set her up for success. BTW, everytime I played the video the Aussie got very stressed. She started pacing and came over to me repeatedly. Our other dogs picked up their heads for a second and went back to sleep.

I agree with Marko, the shepherd is trying to instigate play and the pointer can't seem to decide if he wants to play or not.  I have two intact male GSDs (2 yrs and 4 yrs) and they act like this a lot.  Both are VERY vocal, lots of growling and barking but that is not indicative of fights or aggression.  I've never had a real dog fight.  Often the younger one acts pesty like the shepherd in this video and the older one acts like the Pointer for a while but then either decides he will play after all, or he gives the younger one a good snark and that's the end of it.  I don't usually step in because they are pretty good at reading each other and correcting each other and it doesn't escalate.  I think too often people think that all dogs love to immediately run off and play with all dogs and that's just not the case.  IMO dogs (especially dogs that LIVE together) should be able to tell each other off without it escalating into a bloodbath.  However if the owner is uncomfortable and can't read these dogs then err on the safe side and keep the interactions minimal.

VKGSDs, I am curious as to whether or not either one of your dogs has their hackles up during their "interactions".

Yes, both my current males are very vocal and hackle a lot, not just interacting with each other but any time they get really excited.  For example when I snap pics of them fetching toys, you can see all their hackles WAY up right as they get to the toy.  Some times they hackle at each other in a snarky "get away from me/my food" sort of way, othertimes the hackles come and go as they are playing or pestering each other (like in the video).  Compared to my third male and my female dogs these two males are just more expressive.

I've seen dogs with raised hackles when they are excited, nervous, unsure, playful or being aggressive, but in this case I really thought that although the Shiloh wanted to play, he was somewhat fearful and stressed- rather conflicted. Ha, if only they could talk! I like these types of threads because I always learn something new.