Ok, so I've been reading the REALLY long thread on DM and I've gotten the gist of it.   Am I correct in saying that the Coates/UofM DNA test for DM is the only one currently available?  And it came out in 2008?   (please don't restart the whole why it does/doesn't work, thanks)

Are there ANY health tests that can be done on a dog under 3 years old that will say with 100% accuracy whether or not a dog carries a genetic disease and can pass it on?  
(coat colors and type/length are not genetic diseases, so they don't count)

(PLEASE NOTE:  I'm aware that if a dog actually HAS a known genetic disease then it will pass it on, I'm ONLY asking about carriers!) 

I think the doberman's von Willebrands (sp?) DNA test is 100% accurate, right?   I've heard that this disease has been seen in GSDs too, so does the same DNA test work for GSDs also?

History has shown us that dogs with certified good/excellent hips & normal elbows is no gaurantee that they don't carry bad genes/polygenes and will pass them on. 
PennHip has shown to be more effective in reducing genetic hip dysplacia than OFA/a-stamp.  But, the worry is...how good/skilled is the evaluator?   Also the PennHip seems to be by far the most expensive health test, which is a shame.  
But there is no gaurantee from these tests that a dog isn't a carrier of joint problems. 

As far as I can tell right now, the only thing a breeder can do is not breed a dog that has been positively diagnosed with a genetic disease. 

Since the causes of elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia are multifactorial it will be difficult to eliminate them from the breed completely.   All radiographs can tell you is if that dogs anatomy is correct...it says nothing about the dog's genotype and whether it carries the gene that predisposes to these conditions.   Enviromental factors such as diet and trauma may play a role as well.

I know there are many factors involved with the joint health and construction.  You're preachin' to the choir, lol.   PennHip is still has a much better record of reducing genetic dysplacia than the other x-ray evaulations.  I know it's not 100%. 

My question has to do with tests, DNA or otherwise, that are 100% accurate in determining if a dog is a carrier for a genetic health disease. 

Just simple "yes, here's one" or "no, there's not"  I'm aware of polygenes, genetic predisposition diseases (like bloat), auto-immune related diseases, etc. 

If I'm not confused about what you're asking: the test for the mdr1 mutation (commonly found in collies). To my knowledge, this mutation isn't known to affect GSDs.

GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG

Evaluations through December 2011

Registry	Rank	Evaluations	Percent Abnormal	Percent Normal
BAER HEARING TEST	N/A	20	0.0	100.0
CARDIAC	59	845	0.1	99.6
DEGENERATIVE MYELOPATHY	4	1641	17.7	50.8
ELBOW	12	32937	19.1	80.7
HIPS	40	102750	19.0	79.0
LEGG-CALVE-PERTHES	N/A	10	0.0	100.0
MULTIPLE DRUG RESISTANCE (MDR1)	N/A	17	0.0	100.0
PATELLA	94	162	0.6	99.4
THYROID	58	599	2.7	91.2

 

This is a report of the test results from the OFA database. It may help you a little. As far as which are absolutely correct, you would have to do some research on the tests. Some independent labs also offer different tests that are not reported on the OFA database. 

If a GSD has a "CHIC" certification it means it has normal hips, elbows, and has passed the GSDCA temperament test. Optional tests, cardiac and thyroid,  may also be listed.

Yes Molly&Jack, thats what I'm asking about, although I was mostly interested in those affecting the GSD.  But it's good to have a list of these for anything in canine family. 

Thank you Blitzen.  I've seen that before on OFFA.org, but those tests only tell if the individual dog is affected by those diseases or not, they don't indicate if a dog is a carrier (except for mrd1 and I don't know about LCP) 
It's a given if a dog is affected by a disease then it will pass it on.  But, for those dogs who are not affected, then, for most diseases, we don't have something to tell us if they are a carrier (unless they produce affected offspring.) 

I know my wording may be a little confusing in regards to my question.  Maybe this makes it clearer? 

All I want to know is what genetic diseases have tests that can tell us if a non-affected dog is a carrier of the disease. 

I know the DM test is controversial
I know Elbows, Hips, Patellas are just via x-ray and cannot tell if an unaffected dog is a carrier

Are there any eye, heart, hearing, thyroid, (or any genetic disease affecting any body part) tests that can tell if an unaffected dog is a carrier?


So far on my list I've got:
von Willebrand's disease
mutated MRD1 disease

What studies have shown Penn Hip to be better than the ZW system or even OFA. Not disputing, just would like to read them.

I had one female that I suspected had an underactive thyroid, due to sudden gains in weight.  Testing results showed her thyroid was normal, if in fact slightly high.  With this breed, I don't see a point in testing for ALL of your dog's thyroids, when for example the entire breed is only 2.7% abnormally affected.  Standard testing for hips, elbows, and DM makes better sense, but even then only as urgent as the bloodlines you are working with might dictate.  If they are near some proximity or above the 17 to 19 percent positively afflicted in the overall breed, then your priorities become much clearer.

If I ever happen to produce anything with any kind of inhereted condition whatsoever, I might look at it in a different light.  But, when healthy breeding conditions seem stable, it makes more sense to concentrate your breeding efforts on temperament and drives, the necessary character and physical structure for trainabiliity and working conditions.  There's enough breeders slapping together pretty and colorful dogs, doing ALL of the testing they possibly can, and STILL not producing a dog capable of serving any sort of significant purpose.

IMO, exemplary health should be a prerequisite, but only if working purpose is an included priority that preceeds "magnificent appearances" of whatever flavor you prefer.  You can certainly have your cake and eat it too, but overselection in one area (health, work, appearance) can lead to compromises in another if you LET it.  Would I breed a known carrier of DM or dog with mild HD?  NO.  But, are there any guarantees in genetic and other forms of testing anyway?  Again, NO.  If I have reasonable cause to believe a dog MIGHT be afflicted by some condition, I will absolutely take any steps possible to test the dog, or even eliminate it from breeding with no testing at all.

The vWD test that is used in Dobies cannot be used for GSDs.  There is a blood test you can use for the GSD to test for vWD however it is also controversial and not always reliable in my experience.  I do not believe there is a DNA test for vWD in the GSD breed.  

Blitzen, has the CHIC changed? as I understood it to mean that the dog just had his hips/elbows x-rayed and submitted to OFA.  The dog did not have to pass to receive the CHIC#.  Is that still the same way? or do they have to pass now?  

It irks me a bit when people brag about having a CHIC # on a dog when it really just means their dog was hip/elbow x-rayed and passed the TC.  Heck I have a CHIC # on my female and didnt even know it until years later when I found it by accident when looking at the OFA website.  It may be different in other breeds but in the GSD, the CHIC# means nothing really.  I would rather just see the dogs H&E status.