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by Vixen on 30 January 2012 - 11:01
Particularly the somewhat confusing aspect of Protein. Some information suggests that protein levels should not be too high, however, would I be correct in thinking that it is the source of protein that is actually more important?
Could someone with a better understanding of protein nutrition, be kind enough to explain a good level and best source of protein.
Thank you,
Vixen
Could someone with a better understanding of protein nutrition, be kind enough to explain a good level and best source of protein.
Thank you,
Vixen
by Nans gsd on 30 January 2012 - 16:01
Well let me try; it used to be (per my old vet) that too high protein was not good for puppies joints as it made them grow too fast. Now if you feed say raw, pure meat protein say chicken, beef, lamb, veal, turkey, and exotics, game, ends up being 17/20 percent, calories vary with different meats.
So say the old Eukanuba formulas were supposedly too high in protein (some being 25/30 percent) but too high to grow up puppies but OK for working dogs with some sort of physical job or sport.?? That is what is questionable as to how they utilize those proteins. It USED to be that older dogs 7-14 needed less protein.
Now the puppies need the invaluable proteins of the raw meats to grow them up slowly; the seniors STILL DO NEED a higher but excellent quality of proteins to keep their muscle tone to keep them upright and moving freely, assuming there are no other health issues like kidney failure/liver problems.
So in theory it is still better to keep puppies at a lower percent protein, but from a good source protein to keep them muscled up and lean; I feel lean is key. For seniors I feel lean is also key as they tend to slow down with age and do not run off the excess that they used to. The percentage is not as important as the source, and calories do very much count along with activity levels and exercise. I do not feel you can get this in kibble dog food. It may help you to read the hound womans evaluation of Orijen dog food and where she found it to be insufficient nutrients for most animals and look how high protein Orijen formulas are. Really makes you question what is good for our dogs and what is not so good.
I am not pro or con either way but I have just seem remarkable improvements with my senior dogs (one girl bering 13 years old) in keeping their muscle/strength up without going overboard with their controlled exercise. I have seen her go from limping pretty severely (when on a good quality kibble dog food) and believe me I tried them all; to her being on a raw mostly meat diet also eggs, yogart, and a variety of food some with bone some without bone; now she is more fit than ever at 13 years old then when she started raw diet 2 years ago. So had I not seen it with my own two eyes you probably could not have convinced me that it was her diet. Believe me, it is her diet without question. So that has been my own personal experience and I hope it helps you with your questions about proteins and I have also found that dogs each and every one are individuals; each being with different nutritional needs. The old days of putting kibble in a bowl for my dogs is over, I watch each and every dog differently from week to week as to what their nutritional needs are and make sure they are met.
Best of luck Nan
Go to DesertWind Hounds, a look at adult Orijen dog food. Very interesting evaluation of that food and where it is lacking. Nan
So say the old Eukanuba formulas were supposedly too high in protein (some being 25/30 percent) but too high to grow up puppies but OK for working dogs with some sort of physical job or sport.?? That is what is questionable as to how they utilize those proteins. It USED to be that older dogs 7-14 needed less protein.
Now the puppies need the invaluable proteins of the raw meats to grow them up slowly; the seniors STILL DO NEED a higher but excellent quality of proteins to keep their muscle tone to keep them upright and moving freely, assuming there are no other health issues like kidney failure/liver problems.
So in theory it is still better to keep puppies at a lower percent protein, but from a good source protein to keep them muscled up and lean; I feel lean is key. For seniors I feel lean is also key as they tend to slow down with age and do not run off the excess that they used to. The percentage is not as important as the source, and calories do very much count along with activity levels and exercise. I do not feel you can get this in kibble dog food. It may help you to read the hound womans evaluation of Orijen dog food and where she found it to be insufficient nutrients for most animals and look how high protein Orijen formulas are. Really makes you question what is good for our dogs and what is not so good.
I am not pro or con either way but I have just seem remarkable improvements with my senior dogs (one girl bering 13 years old) in keeping their muscle/strength up without going overboard with their controlled exercise. I have seen her go from limping pretty severely (when on a good quality kibble dog food) and believe me I tried them all; to her being on a raw mostly meat diet also eggs, yogart, and a variety of food some with bone some without bone; now she is more fit than ever at 13 years old then when she started raw diet 2 years ago. So had I not seen it with my own two eyes you probably could not have convinced me that it was her diet. Believe me, it is her diet without question. So that has been my own personal experience and I hope it helps you with your questions about proteins and I have also found that dogs each and every one are individuals; each being with different nutritional needs. The old days of putting kibble in a bowl for my dogs is over, I watch each and every dog differently from week to week as to what their nutritional needs are and make sure they are met.
Best of luck Nan
Go to DesertWind Hounds, a look at adult Orijen dog food. Very interesting evaluation of that food and where it is lacking. Nan
by Vixen on 30 January 2012 - 19:01
Nan, Really appreciate that you took the time to carefully explain this rather 'grey' area concerning Protein. Not merely the percentage, but the good source that is needed.
Thanks for the suggestion of reading an article concerning Orijen, which I certainly will do. Always keen to discover information about food and dogs.
By the way, delighted to hear that your 13 year old dog is thriving on her current diet. EXCELLENT.
Kind Regards,
Vixen
Thanks for the suggestion of reading an article concerning Orijen, which I certainly will do. Always keen to discover information about food and dogs.
By the way, delighted to hear that your 13 year old dog is thriving on her current diet. EXCELLENT.
Kind Regards,
Vixen
by Pharaoh on 01 February 2012 - 21:02
About one third of the dog bowl is filled with "raw kibble mush" that I prepare and the other two thirds of the bowl is filled with raw parts (chicken drumsticks, legs, backs, small tukey necks, beef soup bones and ribs). Sometimes they get egg yolks, defrosted fish or canned sardines packed in water.
The "mush" is ground whole chicken mixed with Honest Kitchen Preference and a long list of additions (salmon oil, vinegar, kelp, alfalfa, garlic/yeast powder etc, etc). Sometimes I grind the chicken and sometimes I use chicken in a bag from http://www.excelk9diet.com/home.htm.
Michele
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