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by duke1965 on 04 January 2012 - 07:01
im more and more surprized , by the lack of ability to judge a real green dog by many these days , surprizingly these days a green dog means a dog well trainted in the abilities wanted by bying parties (police,dealer,sporter etc)
some dogs are trained for sport , not good enough , trained for FOUR months before going to dealer , there trained for another four to six weeks , before being sold as a green dog hhhhmmmmmm
some dogs are trained for sport , not good enough , trained for FOUR months before going to dealer , there trained for another four to six weeks , before being sold as a green dog hhhhmmmmmm
by Bhall on 04 January 2012 - 13:01
That is so true. Green dog= fully trained dual purpose for some people.
by workingdogz on 04 January 2012 - 14:01
"Green dog" to us means, absolutley nothing done but socializing/seeing the world.
No puppy rag work, no tug/ball etc.
Bring out a 6+mos old pup and see what it shows you naturally ie: hunt, play etc.
That to us is green.
No puppy rag work, no tug/ball etc.
Bring out a 6+mos old pup and see what it shows you naturally ie: hunt, play etc.
That to us is green.
by Jenni78 on 04 January 2012 - 14:01
I totally agree, Duke! I have had a few dogs I was selling as "green" this past year and a half of so and I was pretty shocked at the attitudes of disdain I got when inquirers asked me what kind of training had been done. 
I said "nothing...s/he's green...just basically been allowed to be a puppy" and they ask me then how do I know it can be a _________________ if I haven't trained it yet? 
I mistakenly tried to explain that green is basically nature's raw materials, tell them what I see in the dog, invite them to make their own assessment. What they inevitably seem to want is a dog ready for a SchH1! LOL And of course, they want to pay puppy price for anything not titled.
I kind of like to hold back a pup or two for at least several months to see what a certain litter is all about, so that when other owners tell me things, I can compare notes. But it's kind of becoming a big PITA because people expect a 6-9-12mo. old GREEN dog (that I intentionally left green, not neglected as they infer) to be 2/3 of the way or more to a title or PSD certification...it loses its appeal on that level. I figured (oh, so naive) that people would appreciate a pup at an age where you can begin training right away, a pup that is less of a crapshoot, old enough to have xrays and see real temperament...but I guess not. <shrug>
I will go a step further and say the way many sell "green" dogs isn't really honest, though I don't blame them as much as the buyers who dictate what sells...they will choose the dog that looks more impressive/accomplished in whatever they're looking at, but one dog is truly,honestly "green" and one dog has been prepped for sales videos for 4 mos. LOL Too bad people don't know what they want well enough to see what is training and what is genetics.
I said "nothing...s/he's green...just basically been allowed to be a puppy" and they ask me then how do I know it can be a _________________ if I haven't trained it yet? I mistakenly tried to explain that green is basically nature's raw materials, tell them what I see in the dog, invite them to make their own assessment. What they inevitably seem to want is a dog ready for a SchH1! LOL And of course, they want to pay puppy price for anything not titled. I kind of like to hold back a pup or two for at least several months to see what a certain litter is all about, so that when other owners tell me things, I can compare notes. But it's kind of becoming a big PITA because people expect a 6-9-12mo. old GREEN dog (that I intentionally left green, not neglected as they infer) to be 2/3 of the way or more to a title or PSD certification...it loses its appeal on that level. I figured (oh, so naive) that people would appreciate a pup at an age where you can begin training right away, a pup that is less of a crapshoot, old enough to have xrays and see real temperament...but I guess not. <shrug>
I will go a step further and say the way many sell "green" dogs isn't really honest, though I don't blame them as much as the buyers who dictate what sells...they will choose the dog that looks more impressive/accomplished in whatever they're looking at, but one dog is truly,honestly "green" and one dog has been prepped for sales videos for 4 mos. LOL Too bad people don't know what they want well enough to see what is training and what is genetics.
by Slamdunc on 04 January 2012 - 14:01
Duke, I agree it is very hard to find a truly "green" dog these days. I test and evaluate dogs for my PD and it is rare to see green dogs. All of the dogs we test have had some training before being sold to the vendor than more often than not training at the vendors. If you are not careful or test very well and thoroughly you will not see the "real" dog from all of the training. It takes a long time to test dogs when we are searching for new potential k-9's it is a very important purchase and something to be taken seriously.
by Jenni78 on 04 January 2012 - 14:01
Jim, I totally believe that. I sold a dog to a PD and when they were testing him, they were asking these incredulous questions about what he had or hadn't done...like they couldn't really believe that anything they were seeing was totally natural and not an ounce of "drive building" or training. It must be incredibly more common to have to pick though the good ones and the ones that were trained to look good, without anyone owning up to that.
by workingdogz on 04 January 2012 - 17:01
If a dog "has it", they will show it without any "prep work" along the way.
They will of course only get better, ie: "ball" drive will come up up up etc.
But you cannot put in what a dog does not have.
You may fool yourself and think you can "build drive", but it will never be there. You will spend that dogs lifetime "building".
That is the tough part when seeing a "green dog", perhaps thats why some of the best "green dogs" come from "pet owners".
They usually try to take all that good stuff OUT of the dog
The ones that make it through a year of "pet dog ownership" usually make fantastic sport/working k9's etc
Green is green, it means N O T H I N G done training wise.
They will of course only get better, ie: "ball" drive will come up up up etc.
But you cannot put in what a dog does not have.
You may fool yourself and think you can "build drive", but it will never be there. You will spend that dogs lifetime "building".
That is the tough part when seeing a "green dog", perhaps thats why some of the best "green dogs" come from "pet owners".
They usually try to take all that good stuff OUT of the dog
The ones that make it through a year of "pet dog ownership" usually make fantastic sport/working k9's etc
Green is green, it means N O T H I N G done training wise.
by Rass on 04 January 2012 - 17:01
If a dog "has it", they will show it without any "prep work" along the way.
They will of course only get better, ie: "ball" drive will come up up up etc.
But you cannot put in what a dog does not have.
You may fool yourself and think you can "build drive", but it will never be there. You will spend that dogs lifetime "building".
YES!!! And if a dog is unconfident there is little to build on. You may TRAIN and you may TITLE but that does not mean the dog "has it."
They will of course only get better, ie: "ball" drive will come up up up etc.
But you cannot put in what a dog does not have.
You may fool yourself and think you can "build drive", but it will never be there. You will spend that dogs lifetime "building".
YES!!! And if a dog is unconfident there is little to build on. You may TRAIN and you may TITLE but that does not mean the dog "has it."
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