Cesar and his wonderful dog training - Page 4

I do find it interesting how people on here or anywhere for that matter are so against his "touch" with the hand, acting as a bite to the side, but yet many who are against it are willing to correct a dog with a prong collar that has prongs going all the way around the dogs neck.  Does a touch really hurt worse than a sharp correction with a prong collar?

No doubt he kicked the dog in this video in order to get the dog off of him of course, and while I don't approve of kicking he typically taps with the foot on the side when redirecting.  He's far far away from abusive if you compare him to the Inuit people when their dogs fight or do something like this.  Those people are a far cry from foot taps and "hand bite" corrections.  I personally did not like his approach in this video, but I do understand why Cesar provokes.  It's not for his ego or money like some mentioned, Cesar has always provoked in one way or another in order for the problem to show, so he can start working on the problem.  There may be another way to work on the problem, sure, but often times the dogs he works with are ones that others have refused to work with.  Sometimes I read about "after Cesar left, the dogs eventually reverted back to their aggression, had to be put down, etc etc", which is interested if you saw the 100th episode.....All dogs there were well behaved and stable and for many of them it was years after he had been there.  With that said, anyone on here knows it also comes down to how capable is the owner to own/handle the dogs, how consistant are they in the work Cesar showed them, etc etc.  And sometimes certain dogs should not remain at their current owner's home because they aren't capable of handling the dog. 

Again, I don't approve of all of his methods, but I do like the emphasis on exercise, discipline, affection.

Can I second what GSDGuy just wrote ?  I don't always think Cesar is right, either, but if you
a) take the time to watch the whole of each episode; and b) read his books,  he actually comes
over as a good deal more sensible and sincere than he is given credit for by those who seem
to want us all to turn against him, many of whom apparently have not done that.  Not 'conspiracy
theorist' enough to assume that there is any kind of concerted effort to discredit the guy,  but I do
sometimes have to speculate about the motivation of some of those individuals.  [Not getting at
anyone on here, by the way.]

And yes, the thought has occurred to me about the contradiction of not wanting to 'tap' a dog
to distract it, with foot or hand or knee (the latter being a method I've often used myself), with
the common acceptance and reliance on pinch collars and check-chains.  Not to mention some
people's over-use of electric collars.

I would also lay money on the side kick by Margorie's friend not being exactly the same as the
one Cesar uses,  unless the friend had actually been taught personally by Cesar to do that move.
He apparently does not end up with dogs being lame thereafter ...

[Althoough, Margorie, I would agree as a former Dog Walker that one does not use any correction
techniques without the owner's actual permission, whatever method is favoured.  You just DON'T
DO THAT with somebody else's dog !]

No comment one way or the other on the video or Cesar's methods.

Dog aggression aside -
  Why would you not expect to be able to pull your dog's food away without an argument?   
   If you cannot comfortably take away your dog's food, what do you do if your dog gets a hold of something bad or dangerous (just let them have it and deal with the results)? 
          Case in point:  To my heart drop yesterday, Rose and Cirberus got a hold of an Advil liquid gel pill.  To them, this was food/treat.  I was able to get the pill away by reaching down in front of the mouth.  To a dog, this is the same thing as taking away their food.  If they were food aggressive, my hand would have come back bleeding and the pill would have been down the hatch.  (side note, both dogs are fine.  I gave them some hydro peroxide to force vomit and we went on our merry way)

All of my dogs that I have ever had, I have taught from day one "yes, I can pull the foodaway" and "yes, if needed, I can stick my hand in their mouth."  Do I play and tease a dog with its food?   No.  Do I have (or have had) as high of a drive dog as many of you?  No; this may be the key difference though.

Love him or hate him there is one thing that Cesar does really well. Get people with problem dogs to think about getting the dog to a trainer. With the ease that most Americans dump dogs at shelters and pounds for truely minor issues. Cesar at least offers thought about getting the problem corrected. Not every dog can be saved. Not every person is right for every dog.
But if 1/2 the people that had some sort of problem considered training as apposed to dumping. Then Cesar has done some good.
Because really, How many dogs can he personally work with? Compared to the 1000's of good, bad or indifferent dog trainers availabe in every town and city? Some of those dogs can be fixed because people watch TV and see something close to their problem and think "Hey maybe my dog can he helped also"
Plus in the last 19 years I've been involved in dog training i've seen thing go from totally hands on to clickers and now calming signals. And a lot of stuff in between.
Thats just my 2 cents.
Fry

A pinch collar has the advantage in replicating the mother's teeth around a puppy resulting in a hard wired reaction. Choke collars and electric require learned responses, I don't think any one has a pain problem with Cesar's bites, they are just stupid. Cesar's bites are a direct challenge to the dog, it can either back down or challenge back. I have seen some one mimic Cesar's bite with their GSD and it did not respond like you see on TV, it took a whole lot of remedial training to get the owner's relationship back with their dog. Cesar did not invent ignoring your dog, a lot of what he does has been around for a long time. I bet Cesar learned his kick on a schutzhund field. From what I saw this dog was trying it's best to avoid a confrontation but I will give Cesar the benefit of the doubt on this one as the owners were sure to create a problem and I do not know all of the circumstances involved. I would give no warning if some one were to take my food away.

fawndallas, of course you SHOULD be able to take food or anything else away from your dog without it biting or challenging you, but different temperaments require different tactics--very little in dog training is 'one size fits all'.  If I had a grey hair for every food-aggressive dog I've encountered who only became that way after someone in the household decided they were going to 'be the alpha' and take away the dog's food over and over and over again in a single feeding, I'd look like EmmyLou Harris presently does (but she carries it off much better than I suspect I would/will).   The 'drop it' and 'leave it' commands are lifesavers at times, and don't need to be taught in an adversarial manner in order to be reliable.

Markobytes, I was just going to say the same thing you did. I agree with you that the hand darting out and "tapping" the dog is a direct challenge. The prong correction is not your hand coming at the dog in an aggressive manner. However, I would caution anyone not experience to not think they can get away with using a prong on their dog without retaliation. If there has not been any kind of previous basic control work done with the dog and then suddenly the owner figures they'll fix a bad behavior using a prong, chances are they won't get the results they anticipated. Also, when I feed my dogs, I gave them the food and it is their's to eat and enjoy. It would be disingenuous for me to take it back, and I would think cause mistrust. But, I have been known to put the wrong bowl of food with a dog , and when I realize my mistake, take it back and immediately replace it with the intended bowl of food for that dog. Never a problem removing the food and I didn't have to train my dogs to allow me to reach down and take the food away. My dogs trust me and if I do something, there is a reason for it and I am not unjust, like take taking their food away just to prove I can.

Hexe, you are spot on.

Thank you hexe.  I just wanted to be sure I was not missing something.  

   

Yes, Joanro, that is how I approach it to.  I do not do it as a game.  For a new puppy, I simply reach down and move the bowl.  It is more to show the puppy that it is ok if my hand comes near them and their food.  You and Hexe explained it very well.