sick newborn puppy question - Page 1

can anyone tell me if you have had an experience with a newborn puppy who swelled up who's stomach got so swollen and it looked completely flat on the bottom ribs wide it looks like it all the weight was on top of the puppy sort of like all the fat puppies look from the top when they lay on there tummies but when you turn him over he stayed that way please any info helps I already know what the doc said but want other opinions

Hi I have seen a similar problem with bulldog and corgis puppies. the puppies is getting too much nutrition and getting heavier, or overweight, and it is flattening out the rib cage. I bet the puppy lays on its stomache alot too? the puppy needs to be rotated and should sleep on its side to correct the problem. I had an article on it and will see if I can find it.

here's another article, sounds like your problem: Wide ribs in newborn pup A freind of mine just had litter two weeks ago.Had 8 and only 3 lived.My question is,one puppy lays flat on his belly all the time,when you pick him up his rib cage is flared out and his bottom side is flat like a turtle shell.Will this round out and go back to normal when the pup is strong enough to stand up or should something be done.This pup cannot lay on his side,like the other two pups. Thanks RENICK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Renick, I call these puppies "swimmers" and in my experience the prognosis is guarded. Get the puppy off newspapers or hard bedding and onto bumpy rolled up towels or deeper bedding so he cant lay flat. Increased exercise is very important. If the puppy is too fat I would decrease it's nursing time. Some breeders fashion loose tape hobbles to prevent laying down. Good luck with a difficult situation. Dr. Mike

and another: "SWIMMER" PUPPIES Swimmers may occur in litters of Corgis or of Newfoundlands. Any breed can be affected. It is not the length of leg that predisposes a puppy or a litter to this problem. The condition is not necessarily hereditary, even though it may occur repeatedly in the litters of one bitch. All puppy bones are little more than rubber bands in their first weeks of life. If you notice the shape of the chest of your puppies as they are born, you will see a normal oval shape, with the long axis vertical. As puppies crawl around the whelping box and nurse, often they begin to acquire a more flattened shape, with the long axis of the chest becoming more and more horizontal. Factors which contribute to this are 1. Excessive milk consumption - due to a mother with great deal of milk willing to stay in the whelping box for long stretches. This is what accounts for repeated litters of swimmers from one bitch. 2. Flat whelping box - no way for a puppy to alter pressure on the rib cage by crawling up onto a toy or something similar. 3. Temperature in room too warm - puppies are content to lie in one position and not move around looking for a warm spot. Delayed walking and aspiration pneumonia are possible consequences of this flattened shape. Treatment and prevention are pretty much the same thing. Do not allow a bitch with too much milk to spend an unlimited amount of time in the box nursing her puppies. Watch for the first evidence of this problem and take steps to get mother away from the puppies for a couple of hours at a time if you see it starting. Even if this makes more cleanup for you, it will help the puppies. Place sections of orthopedic "egg carton" foam under the blanket in the box, raise one end of the box 2 to 3 inches, or put lots of small soft toys in it so that the puppies can find a place were they can get the weight of the stomach off their lungs, and can orient with their head and chest higher than their abdomen. Do not have the room too warm. A heating pad under the blanket in the center of the box will give the puppies a reason to move around when the bitch leaves the box, going to the warm spot where they can use each other as ramps to get their head and chest going uphill. If your puppies are spread out all over the box when not nursing, your room and box are too warm. They should want to congregate in one area, and touch one another. If they pile up (literally) and whimper, they are too cool. Keep the room at a comfortable temperature of 68 to 72, so the bitch can be comfortable and not stressed by heat, and so that the puppies will gather in one area of the box. This has the additional benefit of keeping them from being squashed by the bitch or against the sides of the box when she enters the box and lies down. Traditionally 'hobbling' the puppies legs has been used to help get these puppies up on their feet. In some short legged breeds this may indeed help, but generally speaking, the prevention and treatment guidelines above will be all that are necessary. If puppies have aspiration pneumonia from pressure on their stomach and lungs, cold nebulization and antibiotic treatment may be needed. Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M. ©8/2000 for BREEDERVET

why wold a puppy die from he above menioned le ask you uys ahve yu ever seen he herpesvirus in pups and adominal distention

I think the post right before yours answers that, the flatness does not allow things to grow correctly and also can allow aspiration (fluid ie milk, going into the lungs not the stomach because there is so much pressure. Puppies need to be on their sides,,, 1/4" mesh hardware cloth over the surface will also help. I think there are several folks who have seen herpes in puppies... abdominal distention from eating too much?? or from being a swimmer??? yes and yes...

Superb stuff Uber Land! I'm literally left gaping! Just when you think you know a thing or two ...! Good tips - thank you for this effort.

well guys thank you very much for your answers i must say it seems more like the swimmer than the herpes like the vet said because he did look like a turtle and the ribs where splayed outward and he drug his feet please dont you day right away from the herpesvirus and are in pain ?anyway thanks for your help i am now off to see another vet

The pup probably is a "swimmer". PART 1 Years ago (in the 70's), I had an American bred stud who produced some swimmer pups in every litter. At the time, such pups were treated by veterinarians with injectable Seletoc (selenium and vitamin E) as if they had a selenium-vitamin E deficiency (like "white muscle disease"?). These IM injections were fairly caustic and produced some muscle necrosis at the injection sites. Very soon I was able to recognize swimmers immediately after birth because I was able to palpate a very slight, longitudinal ridge (cartilaginous?) about half-way down either side of the ribcage. Rather that use the Seletoc injections, I began treating these suspect, newborn swimmer pups ORALLY with a single drop (not an injection) of Seletoc and the contents of a water-soluble vitamin E capsule. I continued this oral treatment for perhaps a week until the pups were crawling and well up on their legs. The next step in preventing swimmer pups in future litters sired by this male was to maintain him on oral selenium yeast tablets and 400 I.U. water soluble vitamin E. Thereafter, this stud produced no more swimmers even when bred to the same bitches. However, when I susbsequently sold this male to someone who did not maintain the selenium-vatamin E supplementation, he once again produced swimmers--UNTIL such oral dietary supplementation was resumed!! Louise Penery

PART 2 The stud in question was Covy's Pan of Tucker Hill (by Zeus of Fran-Jo, ROM, ex Ch. Covy's Felita of Tucker Hill, ROM. His breeders assured me that Pan, himself, had not been a swimmer--and that none of his littermates had been swimmers. Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge, none of the pups from Pan's swimmer litters ever produced swimmers when they were bred by their owners. However, if you were to ask me if I were to maintain such a stud today or recommend that he be used at stud, I would reply: "H$ll, no!" At the time I had Pan, I was relatively young, rationalized, and didn't have any better sense. Louise