by Hired Dog on 09 August 2020 - 08:08
by apple on 09 August 2020 - 10:08
by ValK on 09 August 2020 - 11:08
some time ago i posted video with pup named Bas. if you can recall, that pup didn't show much of interest to chase or to thing
(ball in that case) but certainly was for fight when that thing was in hands of his handler. and the more resistance from handler -
the more intense that pup got involved in that fight. and pretty noticeable that he loves it.
that pup in video was 3 month old.
i guess it depend on breeding but desire to dominate and to fight obviously can be observed in pups from very young age.
pups from border been delivered to club at age 5-6 weeks and initially was kept together. at time when they reached age 3-4 month,
they have been separated. because a fight start to broke in between them quite often.
by Koots on 09 August 2020 - 11:08
I see a moderate amount of prey drive, and early-development 'defense' drive in Icon so far. I say 'defence' in that he will bark at noises and other strange things around the property (deer, rabbits, etc.), so some degree of territorial defence drive. If he lives up to his genetic potential, I think he will be a balanced dog, with good active agression, fight, possession and prey drive. I don't think he will have 'over-the-top' prey drive like some sport-focused breeding, but will be an all-round dog that can do sport or other disciplines. As Hired dog said, "time will tell" - as with any pup. I am looking forward to seeing how he develops, that's for sure. Should be fun!
Here's his ped:
by arra on 09 August 2020 - 11:08
I love the video Canczech did for you as a young pup, super well done! Good luck with your nice puppy.
by Koots on 09 August 2020 - 12:08
Thanks arra, I know you are familiar with these lines and what to expect from them. I watched the Canczech page for years, then when they had this mating (Rush x Abba) posted and I looked up the mating outcome, I immediately sent them an email. After a trip to Vancouver (for business) and a visit to the Nikl's to see Abba and 2 of her pups from the first mating with Rush, I put my money down on her next litter with Rush (via AI). I was waiting for about 1 yr for the mating to take place, confirmation of pups, then selection and pick-up of Icon. I am very excited about what I see with him - he learns very quickly and is a breeze to teach new stuff due to his food drive and quick association. Plus he's a really nice looking youngster - should be a very handsome dog as well as a great worker!
Edit to add: The Nikl's have been great to deal with. I was made to feel like a family friend on my first visit, even though we had never met in person.
by Hired Dog on 09 August 2020 - 12:08
Fighting among littermates is common, which is why I have always said separate pups at 5 weeks, allow daily, supervised play, but, not being together all day and night.
Willingness to fight another dog does not always translate willingness to fight another human. What you describe could translate to a dog willing to fight, but, it may not and I certainly dont want to fight my own dog over every single thing I need him to do, nor do I want to revert to some of the "training methods" you described at your earlier posts.
At the end of the day, its a puppy, a gamble, it may grow up to be a great dog or a dud, as far as what you wanted.
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 09 August 2020 - 13:08
The humping that you describe is not dominance behavior. It's a bratty puppy/frustration/overexcitement behavior.
My female is doing the exact same thing to my male and he's letting her get away with it. She literally hangs off his neck, then gets overexcited, jumps on the couch and humps a pillow.
It's frustration/overexcitement but really has nothing to do with dominance.
Also, personally, I wouldn't do any ragwork at all. The preydrive will come out. It's not even anything I ever worry about.
by Koots on 09 August 2020 - 15:08
So, for the people who say that humping is not a sign of dominance, albeit considering it's a puppy, what do you say about Icon now trying to mount my 7 yr old male (neutered)? Or Icon getting upset when the other dog tries to go through the kennel gate or house door first? I agree that some 'humping' behaviour can be puppy excitement, but from my observations of Icon, I think there is a certain amount of dominance displaly in there. I look at the body language of when Icon used to interact with the female, and now intereacts with my older male - the tail held high, etc. which brings me to my conculsions.
My 1 yr old female Bear was 'adopted' by my sister, who recently lost her dog to pancreatic cancer. It's a great match for both of them, Bear is spoiled now and my sister has the companionship, watchful eye and big bark of Bear.
BE - I do not do a lot of flirt pole work, I only bring it out once every few days at most, just to gauge where his prey development is at and to work on chase/target/grip/pull/win. I don't believe it's the helper's job to teach that stuff to my dog when I take him out on the field - I teach that at home while playing, so that he will know what to do when working at the club and our sessions can progress more quickly. I like setting the foundation for sport work, and raising puppies to teach them what I want them to know.
Here's a vid of Icon playing with Bear to illustrate what he was like with her. She was very patient with his antics and they played very well together (supervised of course).
by ValK on 09 August 2020 - 17:08
of course, if pup familiar with you it always start as a game. it's your call to intensify play and bring it to war. nothing wrong with it.
you're in control when to cut it short. it's also give you good opportunity to observe pup's threshold when (if any) aggression start
to shows up, how pup handle the stress and how recover from it.
you really wanna Icon to turn to be dominant dog, do you? :)
could be he will but so far from videos i haven't seen confirmation for this. in last clip he was playing the fight with bigger dog, that all.
you also should realize - dominance isn't fixed value. it comes in different forms and applied differently by different dogs.
i'd previously posted this video with pup Thusnelda vom haus Iris.
in it no any humping involved but clear signs of stubborn desire and attempt to dominate.
please watch thoughtful - big girl try to initiate game but that constantly been ignored by little girl. instead she stubbornly attempting to
reach, bite and hold withers of big girl. even after been somewhat hurt, she didn't gave up her attempts. add to that her serious growling
like an endeavor to be seen as big, strong and scary one :)
forgot to add:
"X-Renate vom Kabuschsee und ihre neue Freundin Thusnelda"
from that description i understand that those two just become newfound friends, thus it's also explains Thusnelda's behavior and
instinctive desire to establish own authority in pack.