Females that you like GSd part 2 - Page 2

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by Hired Dog on 19 August 2019 - 17:08

http://east-german-shepherds.weebly.com/ddr_bloodline_info1.html

by ValK on 19 August 2019 - 19:08

apple
i contacted him 2-2.5 years ago, after my last dog passed away. he hadn't anything at that time. seems he do not in breeding anymore.

didn't know that that Jessi was imported from US.
i recognized romanian language in video and did thought that she were born in Romania or somewhere in neighboring country.

by apple on 19 August 2019 - 19:08

I am just going by her name being from Ostschutz. If the dog was out of a breeding by Dani of Old Guard, I would think the dog would be Jessie vom Old Guard. I have watched some Old Guard videos and basically all you see is a dog barking at someone. The videos are mainly showing the dog's structure and large bone and heads.

by apple on 19 August 2019 - 19:08

by ValK on 20 August 2019 - 18:08

thanks for link to video.
Dani's intention sounds fine but doomed to failure. sadly DDR type of dogs already gone for good because disappeared the base on which they were developed and cultured.
your previous remark about "structure more than anything" is not really correct.
sure, in comparison to show breeding. but work breeding in West also produces at least from time to time quite sturdy build dogs.
also not all DDR dogs were bred for dominance and aggression. more over, Werner Dalm, who oversaw breeding in DDR, was quite negative toward such trend in civilian breeding. not you neither others should project what i writing about my experience, to a breeding in DDR.
it was a breeding for narrowly specialized purpose. not so was in civilian breeding. their dogs were intended for wide range of applications and foremost to be a family dogs.
for example you can look at wertmessziffer evaluation for Franzi, i posted above.
/23 means
sharpness - present,
courage and hardness - sufficient
and she was quite successful as a brood bitch, did complete SchH3, FH1 and RH2, trained to be a rescue dog.
for border purpose even value /33 was a failure.
same can be said about dominant trait in dogs.

b.t.w. video of Jessie not really very informative but obviously she isn't dominant type of dog.

by apple on 21 August 2019 - 12:08

I have read where Werner Dalm said the DDR military dogs were largely crap and the good DDR dogs were bred by civilians who were stewards of the breed and were the ones responsible for the quality of the DDR dogs. It is not much different today in that very few police or military organizations have solid or any breeding programs. My current dog is a combination of West German, Slovak and Czech dogs and goes back to some of the early, nice DDR dogs. I would say he is a sturdy dog at 108 pounds and about 26" at the withers. He is large boned and has a strong head and well muscled, but not to the extent of most of the dogs in the video I posted. He has very good prey drive and is maturing into showing angry aggression in the bite work. He is figuring out what to do with his aggression. He has a very hard bite. He is very agile. He is a tad handler sensitive, but is maturing away from that and handles the e-collar well. I use it at the lowest working level needed so it utilizes negative reinforcement rather than positive punishment. Regarding the DDR dogs my dog goes back to, they include Lord and Blacky vom Gleisdreieck, Jeff von Flammings-Sand, Ingo von Rudigen and several other von Rudigen dogs. Other DDR dogs behind my dog are Bojar von Schotterhof, Gero von Gucklehorst, Held von Ritterburg, Ivette von Furstendam, Treu von Schaferstolz, Iwo von der Buschecke and Bero von der Friedersdorfer. These dogs are from the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's, so their genetic contribution is small, but they are in my dog's pedigree through several dogs so I guess I could say there is an element of genetic backmassing. There are also very many very strong West German dogs through several dogs that go back pretty far. I have had people ask me if he is from a DDR breeding because of his structure. My decoy says working him is like working a donkey because of his power. He is not dominant, but can be pushy and persistant. He is socially appropriate, but if someone comes near my vehicle, he lights up quickly and this behavior didn't develop until he matured some, which I prefer. So even though he has very good prey drive, he is not a prey monkey or sleeve sucker and clearly wants to bite the man. He has matured to the point of becoming a good family dog, but the typical family would not have been able or willing to put up with his recklessness as a pup. He is very protective, but not overly sharp or reactive. And he has a level of drive that will allow him to do well in sport. My point is that I believe the DDR influence of some of the old DDR dogs behind him were likely an asset and the dogs close behind him were balanced dogs with strong drives and not selected for extreme prey or play. The dogs in the video were nice looking dogs, but I don't see them as having the drive to excel at work or sport.

by ValK on 22 August 2019 - 17:08

i guess "crap" pretty subjective term and depends on personal perception.
i remember seeing his interview (after reunification) where he expressed his view and noted that "military were looking for type of dogs with above average aggression and dominance" but haven't seen anything, mentioned that such dogs are crappy.
if you look up assessments of former DDR dogs, widely used in breeding back then, majority had usually /44 -/55 or variation of 4 and 5.
and of course civilian breeders in DDR was main supplier due to availability of higher volume of dogs on hands and much greater variables of genetic pool. not so in other Eastern bloc countries, where civilian breeding of GSDs was nearly non existent. border breeding was in needs to import fresh blood and not all imported dogs, even being good by itself, turned to be potent producers.
in breeding brood bitches had 2 years break. yearly breeding of same dame was rare and only done if previous litter gave high volume of suitable dogs. and no, there wasn't a race "bigger dog's head - the better". the dogs was bigger and stronger than what you can see today around and main accent was on temperament, health and strength. not too much concern was about color, ears shape and such. dogs was purposed for work, not for run in circle.

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