OT - The US National Debt - Page 3

Article 1 Section 8 Clause 5 & 6 and Article 1 Section 10 Clause 1.

~~~  To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures

~~~~ To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States

~~~~  No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility

uglydog posted this on a different thread:

"Debunking The Gold Standard: The Myth of Legality" http://killfile.newsvine.com/_news/2007/06/27/805326-debunking-the-gold-standard-the-myth-of-legality?threadId=118854

so if we are going to be truly constructive we need to support opinion with fact.  interpreting the constitution is challenging, and i'm no constitutional scholar not even close, but after reading the above article i don't think your argument would stand up to supreme court scrutiny, which i think would be a good standard to have.

The facts are in the Constitution. That link is a panzyarse twist of BS. Now I see why everyone thinks Ron Paul is nutz. Too bad.

I'm under the impression the standard within the Constitution is the dollar, which at the time is a silver coin with 371 and 1/4 grains of Silver. It's mentioned in Article 1 Section 9 and of course the 7th Amendment. The word Dollar was around long before Federal Reserve notes .. so I believe the Dollar refered to in the Constitution is the Silver backed dollar and the Constitution itself confirms this.

Article 1 Section 10 Clause 1 says only silver and gold is legal to pay debt. Soo, Congress has an obligation to declare illegal anything other than gold and silver coins.

I see the reasoning of your link posted in Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3 Article lV Section 2 also the 5, 9, 10 and 14th Amendments .. which does allow people into free market private banking .. but the money can't be fraudulent and must provide public statements, reciepts and expenditures of all public moneys, asuming this private bank in question has a commodity money .. again, only commodity money by weights (which Congress is obligated to stamp by weights and measures) in other words making sure a 10 dollar gold coin is equal to a 10 dollar silver coin by weights and measures.

The Constitution is free market (commodity money principle) IE:  silver and gold dollars (coined) Refer to the Coinage Act of 1792. This is why there's a separation of bank and state. The government is not supposed to impose on the private bank or vise versa. Same with religion, there's supposed to be a seperation there.

This is very important history to know because then you can see what's about to happen in the near future. Remember Lincoln and the economy back then ? They used a crisis to establish a new direction for this country money wise. Only this thim it's world wide .. bastards. Congress back during the Civil War pushed for the paper money aka greenbacks while everyone in the country was killing everyone over race issues. Think about it. Ever wonder why the income tax and Federal Reserve became reality in the same year ? Why the hell does the federal reserve have anything to do with taxpayers moneys ?  .. I don't see anything that gives Congress or a private bank the option to print money outta thin air and charge the people for the debts, and it sure as hell doesn't give anyone the authority to devalue our good name and "dollar". These thugs aren't worthy of even breathing near a real dollar. 

I mean really, how much money has the FED printed. They've never been audited by anyone .. how much debt are we actually in as a country since 1913 ? I bet the bastards don't even know, all the while they laugh about it. Jokes on us. And you think this is Constitutional ?  Where's that scarecrow when ya need him.

In 1933 look what happened .. Roosevelt made everyone trade their gold and silver for "notes" .. what people didn't trade was confiscated. WTF !!!  And Chisums hint and 1/2 about Obama being a Roosevelt in the making ?  Will you trade all your silver and gold for the new and improved Amero ? Doesn't anyone learn anything from history.

I shouldn't have read that link, darn it.

Just Curious..You have me confused with someone else.

That was NEVER my Link and it is the bigest crock of Sh*t Ive ever read.
Im for the Gold Standard as our Forefathers were, Im For Interest Free Debt from the Treasury, For money that is controlled by COngress, Not a Private Corporation owned by Foreign Interests.

Not sure who the author was but I can bet who pays his salary, f*ckin Neo Cohen Traitor.  Not my article, not my link, not anything I support, EVER!

It is HorseSh*t.

Death to the FED and the Bankers. Does that clear it up?

"When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill."  -Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr.  1913

 "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -Thomas Jefferson

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."(Paul Warburg, drafter of the Federal Reserve Act)

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws."(Mayer Amschel Rothschild)

"Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly." -- Fifth plank of the Communist Manifesto, 1848

This IS a Link I APPROVE of

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/reserve2.htm 

uglydog -  i'm very sorry not sure why i thought it was you who post it; at the time i did think it was weird when i read it that you had posted it i guess my mind went wonky - should have listened to my gut

I shouldn't have read that link, darn it. - BabyEagle4U

well i'm glad you did.  i need to read you're post over a few times but the first read through was informative.  i'm trying to understand how to built a real case so that article is a good 'counter argument'.  if we can blow holes in that argument by using legit legal methodology we might be able to create a strong enough argument to move this issue from the fringe to center stage.  anger and frustration are good motivators but they sure can get in the way - major polarizers - when trying to formulate a case.

This issue has been moved through congress actually .. remember .. in 1971 the first "fiat currency" the same year congress allowed it to be internationaly redeemed. 3 years after congress banned silver and gold coins. And then  in 1985 Ron Paul (of course) got Congress to allow new silver and gold coin mints (Liberty Dollars). Tons of people got together melting their gold ... took it to the mint for Liberty Dollars ..  the FBI raided (not to long ago) a real circulation of commodity backed tender .. billions .. the reports thay gave didn't come close to the amount of gold, silver and copper they stole. Actually the Ron Paul coin was requested by the local Media because they didn't think it even existed. LOL

I met a guy at a Lancaster RP Rally who paid his Electric Bill in Gold and Silver and he was charged for fraud or something... he paid the 400.00 bill with federal reserve notes at the hearing .. never got his gold back.  

Damn! I love it when you get mad, Ugly! Gold and silver fluctuate pretty wildly in value too though!

Maybe you’re making too much of this printed money business, justcurious. It’s probably the least crucial part of the money supply equation. Treasury’s Mint prints it and the Fed distributes it to the banking system as required by consumers – old notes get replaced, more is added as economic activity/demand/inflation dictates – i.e. largely a matter of public convenience. The actual physical amount in circulation, in a modern economy, has little bearing on its worth. That’s largely determined by the total money supply at any one time relative to underlying economic strength, as in turn subject to myriad factors.

The real money supply (including bank deposits and outstanding credit) is almost beyond accurate measurement because of constantly changing velocity. Take two different brands of toothpaste on a supermarket shelf, with a box of the more popular selling at the rate of one a day, and the other only once a week. Well, the shelf space allocated to the first is pulling its weight seven times better than the second – it’s working or turning over seven times harder – the same sort of thing applies to money whenever the economy heats up (and the reverse during deflationary periods).

Neither does the Fed ‘control’ the money supply; it merely exerts influence via interest rates, buying and selling of securities and currencies, setting member bank deposit ratios, etc, together with various regulatory measures. It’s also the other banks’ lender of last resort. The ownership structure is a bit unique (see Wiki for details) but its functioning is much the same as that of other central banks. Overall control lies with Congress, which, jointly with the President, also appoints the Board of Governors.

Chissum, what is this? not one word about the breed on oli's gsd data base, what an insult, don't you think?????  liz

has anyone seen the hate Freespirit posted on the nat holloway post ?oh It s'almost as hate ful as vandersloot himself.babyeagle4u knows that and preston helped her with it ..no wonder we are hated around the world.the world thinks we all feel like that.