Ideas for gun shy dog - Page 2

So the owner is doomed too, since she admittedly jumped? LOL

Yep, they both need work! ;) but really,. I wouldn't say doomed.....

jenni, i have not encountered that situation.  i do have one dog that seems more sensitive to gunfire than the rest.
most of them either pay no attention or else watch us shooting.  this dog has exhibited sensitivity to loud noise in
a couple of other situations.  he is 3 yrs old and thus far just my companion dog; some schh training, but i don't
have any high aspirations for him.  i would not say he's a nerve bag by any means, but neither would i expect him
to be reliable in a critical situation-----i have 2 others for that :)
pjp

I will add one more thing that is becoming a pet peeve of mine; neutral is not oblivious or ignoring the gun fire.  I would not want a dog that ignored gun fire as that may be a sign of avoidance.  Neutral just means the dog remains under control, doesn't become aggressive, doesn't bark, doesn't become startled, doesn't try to bolt, spook or cower.  Alert, confidant, aware of his surroundings and the gun shots.  With enough nerve strength and self control to remain in drive, focused and not leak drive.  That is gun fire neutral to me alert, calm, aware of the gun fire, in drive and ready to go but in control.  

Slam and Zeig nailed it. A dog can show an alert reaction to gunfire in a trial,
most truthfully will look around quick for a helper  they are NOT penalized for
that, they will however be penalized for tucking tail, spooking, running and/or 
showing a fearful reaction. It is not unheardof for a judge to ask for a couple more
gunshots with a dog that shows a questionable or 'iffy' reaction to the initial shot.
This silliness of people believing a dog has to be flatliner brain dead in a trial to
gunshots is usually something bantered around by those that don't actually 
have hands on experience in training/trialling. 

ANY dog can be 'made' to remain under control during gunshots, however, it's not
really in the best interest of the dog to force them to endure that kind of repeated 
exposure to something that stresses them so badly. When this sound sensitivity 
shows up 'all of a sudden', well, it's usually at a time the dog is under stress, and 
that stress can also be added to with a nervous handler as well. The true dog will
always show itself when stressed, no matter how much training. The true dog may 
remain under control after heavy training and conditioning to get through an exercise 
like the 2 gunshots in a trial, but he may suffer from gastric stress etc later that same
day. As far as a Police service dog being gunshy? Other than the dog Slam wrote of,
I'd think it would be terribly unethical to train a dog to 'accept' gunfire when he has already
shown signs of being afraid of them. That puts human lives on the line. The true dog will
always show itself in the end during times of stress. 

Botanica, I'd listen to Slam's advice for working with your dog through this. He has
provided you with some words of wisdom and actual hands on experience. Good luck
with your dog! 

Very helpful, I will keep thinking about it and trying stuff. Workingdogz, yes, he might have been a bit stressed, because of the trial. I don't think I was stressed that much, but he really picks on my nervousness, he is really good that way.

I do wonder though, what is it about a gun fire that freaks a dog? Is it how loud the sound is, is it because the sound is so unusual? Chaos has been exposed to fireworks and didn't have a negative reaction, other than being curious. He didn't run in the house or hide... Maybe because the kids were running and screaming and having fun...or maybe because the fireworks allowed in VA are sort of lame.

Slamdunc, I would like for Chaos to be neutral to gun fire or other things we encounter as you describe. However, I am not clear is that something that the dog is or isn't or is it something that I can work with him on? Does this have to do with how confident a dog is? If I understood what workingdogz is saying correctly, since Chaos was under stress somewhat, his "true" personality is not as laid back and neutral as I thought it was, but more of a nervous and insecure? Does that change in any way how I would approach training and new things? Is there anything that I can do to help him be more confident? He is 20 months old, so there is still a lot of maturing for him to go through.

For most dogs they just are or aren't.  I don't train my dogs to accept gun fire.  We do it a few times before trial so I can see whether they are gun shy or not.  I have one dog (not a GSD) that I'd love to do IPO obedience with but can't because he is scared of gun fire.  I could probably handle him through his obedience but he'd break a down and he gets stressed hearing it for all the other dogs when he's in his crate.

I don't know if this will help or not. I live at a shooters/golf club, not too far from a lot of trap and skeet houses. During the winter there are a lot of dogs of all breeds living here including my GSD. One guy who shoots brings his GSD service dog with him. At first, many of the new dogs react negatively to the shotgun noise, some will cower, some will bark, some will try to hide, some will even cry out. After few days of hearing the noise, most are no longer reacting to it much at all.

I didn't get my current GSD til she was 3 1/2 and as far as I know she was never exposed to gun shots except when she trialedfor her BH and did her GSDCA temperament test. The first day she was here was a shooting day; she alerted and looked toward the noise. The next day she just looked and that's the most she does now almost 2 years later. She sleeps through the worst thunderstorms and pays no attention to fireworks.  

It seems to me that most dogs can be conditioned to the sound of gun shots if they are exposed to it enough. Some of the dogs here are nervous little  yappers like bichons and terriers, they bark at all people, all other dogs, at a leaf blowing it the wind, but don't react at all to gunshots.

I should add that the dogs that live here don't get out on the range where the shooting is happening. They are far enough away so that the noise level isn't loud enough to damage their hearing. Maybe that's not loud enough?

This is getting too complicated. 

It's my opinion that labels are not productive. Labels only help you decide if you're going to dump the dog or work with it. If you're not going to sell the dog, then changing your label on him from laid back as you've always thought he was to nervous because workingdogz said he was doesn't seem like a very productive idea, especially not with a dog admittedly very sensitive to the handlers's moods.  Pigeonholing a dog for one unusual reaction when startled out of a very relaxed state (kind of like how a big fat guy snoozing in his recliner might react to sudden gunfire, lol), with a handler who was also startled, and nervous on the day of her first trial, seems a bit counterproductive to training and also possibly detrimental to the relationship.  If the dog is 20 months old and very in tune with his handler, who was nervous, then he may be liable to be a bit edgy on their first trial day, as she was, and therefore have a heightened sensitivity about him. If that's the way he's wired, then putting more negative ideas in her head about the dog isn't going to help either of them move forward in his training. You have to train the dog in front of you, and internet labels aren't all that helpful for that, imo. From what's described, the dog may well have a noise sensitivity to one thing under certain situations....or it may have been a fluke when he was startled, or he may be genetically fearful of loud noises. We don't know. I don't really think it's all that pertinent or bears over-analyzing, as the end result is the same...the dog spooked at close-range gunfire. 

He still went out and did the best BH routine, and I'll bet having that "win" under their belts will also calm the handler for next time due to that shot of confidence and we all know state of mind travels down lead. This may never be a problem again; it wasn't before. Let's approach it with a positive attitude so we're not dooming everyone right off the bat. Then if it's wrong, and he's just a total nervebag and she's never noticed it in 20 months, nothing has been lost. If he never has a problem again, then fantastic; at least we haven't caused a self-fulfilling prophecy by trashing the dog and changing how the handler looks at him.  I know that seems silly to those who treat their dogs like machines, but I firmly believe how you view your dog affects your relationship and ulimately their behavior. Some dogs are more in tune with their handlers emotions than others; some are very sensitive to them. A lot of that seems to depend on how they live with the dog- whether they're constant companions or kenneled sport dogs. As a handler, I would maybe pay attention to my frame of mind and see if there's a correllation. 

There is a dog in that pedigree that I've heard was somewhat known for noise sensitivity, though the cases I've heard were much more severe, so there is always the possibility that the genetics for sound sensitivity will show themselves down the road in progeny, but again, where it came from isn't all that useful at this point, water under the bridge, and I don't want to bash that dog- not nearly as useful as the tools and techniques given to work with the TEAM on this issue, if it does turn out to be an issue. 

Happy Memorial Day, everyone.