If you are not a Control Freak... - Page 2

I don't think there's an iron clad method of raising a GSD. You have to adjust to each puppy's temperament and character. Like Agar says, pups need structure, routine, love, praise, guidance and discipline. I put discipline last because if you structure the pup's routine and training and use lots of praise and love, discipline won't be at the top of the list or even the middle of the list for what your young pup needs. You should always set a young puppy up to succeed.

I treat my dogs with respect for both their intelligence and their limitations. My expectations change depending on the age and nature of the dog.

Vikram, I think you are asking how you can train a dog to have an extremely close bond with you. I'm not sure that's a trainable thing. If you spend a lot of time working with your dog and never try to continue training when you or your dog have reached a limit, you will develop a bond. By a lot of time, I don't mean an hour or two at a time. I mean a few  to 15 minutes or so several times a day over a period of months and years. By limit, I mean when either you or your dog get frustrated, confused or hit a "wall". Always finish training on a high note; give the dog something you know he can succeed at doing and praise him when he does it.

The kindred spirit bond where your dog knows just what you need and you know just what he needs is something that happens easily with some dogs and not with others. I think that just happens and it depends on the particular dog and owner. If I had a formula for developing that, I'd be rich. Some people are not capable of that kind of bond. Some dogs may not be capable of it either.  I've never had a dog I didn't develop a bond with, but some were deeper than others.

What that has to do with being or not being a control freak, I don't know.

most dog books focus on training/conditioning few that i've seen talk about educating and developing the dog's mind; and fewer still talk about spiritually connecting with one's dog. some do discuss how having a dog can help you develop your own spirituality (e.g monk of new skete) but i haven't read much about the capacity of a dog to go beyond training other than j allen boone's book, which i really enjoyed reading.

the folks who i have found that go beyond training are charles eisenmann who wrote a few books including "stop! sit! and think" & "the better dog: the educated dog". in his books (which unfortunately are out of print) he talks about first laying a foundation of training but then discusses moving beyond training and really stretching the dogs mind - really make him think. another 'training' method that helps develop a thinking dog is SATS www.synalia.com which focuses on developing 2 way communication instead of just ordering your dog around you actually work cooperatively, which encourages the dog to think about what s/he is doing.

both these methods do not rely on the "pack" model to understand and work with their dogs but instead do not encourage this instinct and replace it with thinking and self control. another good training method, which i personally think sets a good foundation to build off of, is ian dunbar. he says the first thing to do is teach your dog 'esl' - english as a second language - both eisenmann & SATS also focus on teaching language well beyond the basic commands though all 3 start with basic obedience. once the dog understands these words/commands you add more and more.

well it's late and that's all i can say for now

Control freak I havn't a clue there and not really sure what you are asking?

A dog like that kindred spirit or heart dog might be a once in a life time dog.   

Terri

Buy and read these books. I think that may find your answer there. 

http://www.newsketemonks.com/dogs.htm 

As far as i am concerned , there is only one boss and that is me,

But saying that i do not want to control the dog to the extent it becomes wary or nervous, just the opposite to that, a firm hand but a gentle one, your Voice is a great controller of a dog, i never show that i am upset or up tight with a Dog

I do with human beings, but not with animals or birds

i like to be laid back and relaxed but i use strong firm commands without any other methods to get the dog to look to me as it's boss,

I said this on another thread

You can have a dog that loves you

but the same dog will not respect you, and if he does not respect you, then you are not the pack leader

Steve

 just curious, you said,

" ...he says the first thing to do is teach your dog 'esl' - english as a second language - both eisenmann & SATS also focus on teaching language well beyond the basic commands though all 3 start with basic obedience. once the dog understands these words/commands you add more and more."

I thought this was very interesting and validates my own experience! I have noticed all my dogs have been clever enough to learn English, even if I never tried to teach them. Like, when I say, "I'm tired, I'm going to bed", and the dog would get up and head up the stairs, if I didn't follow, he'd get upset, like he was saying, "Didn't you just say it's bedtime?" I would have to spell it, just so he wouldn't get his hopes up.

Saying the word squirrel, means "Open the door and let me at 'em", to my current boy. I can ask him go find, this kid or that kid, and he searches for the proper one. When we say check for "ghosts", he runs up to my kids bedroom (to flush them out so the kid can sleep.) 

While he loves his whole family, I'm the one he follows everywhere.

And... this is the first time I have heard anyone mention the books by the Monks, and it just so happens, Santa brought us one of their books, so I'll be starting on it straight away.

Hi,

I can only share my experience w/you.  I own a 12 y/o black female gsd.  She and I share a deep bond and trust, from the time I brought her home as a puppy she has been my dog.  Within a very short time, if I left the room she would stop playing w/my husband and find me.  She is not a dog that likes to be mauled and loved up, she always knows where I am and always is in the same room as I am.  She has always been a hard dog with an over the top ball drive.  Although we now share this deep connection it took time to mature.  I took her to ob training for the first two years of her life, she loves training and it was something we did together, I sincerely believe that this helped us to deepen our bond and helped me to be a stronger person. 

 I've been mulling over the idea of ordering the following video.  I've read Jean Donaldson's work before and she's got a lot of wisdom:

FIGHTING DOMINANCE IN A DOG WHISPERING WORLD DVD

http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB966

Has anyone seen this video?  If so, what did you think?

Micky

Control is only illusion when you are an inexperience person who has not got a clue how to raise and work with a working line dog.if you want to see real dogs working under beautiful control watch a dog like Bronson or Kevin Sheldyl police dog Cj.talk about real dogs it is awesome to see these dogs work and the control.u will never find any thing better than these dogs.keep in mind dogs have off days just like people.have a nice one.

Page 1 of 2

beetree   "When we say check for "ghosts", he runs up to my kids bedroom (to flush them out so the kid can sleep."
THAT was very cool and it made me smile. I have my first GSD, he's a pup that turns 7 months old in a few days. We are already bonded and I expect this bond to grow as he matures. I would like him to be my second "once in a lifetime" dog. 
I had such a dog for 14 years, not to get too spiritual here, but it was like our souls were connected. I was never sure that he couldn't actually read my mind.... I know that's not possible, but he sure made it look like he could. LOL   Caesar was a beautiful and extremely dedicated Doberman. I lost him about four years ago and even to this day I find it difficult to describe him, out of concern that I just don't know the words needed to do justice to his memory. After losing Caesar, I never wanted to ever have another dog. Dobermans had been my breed for 30 years and I just knew that another Caesar couldn't exist. I have lost loved ones in my life, tragedy is not a stranger to me, but I never knew a full grown man could have so many tears, until the day I had to place him in to the ground.
After going without a dog for over 2 years, I found that my life was missing something that humans could not give me, so I bought another dog, this time a deep dark brown Chesapeake puppy, his name was Grizz. This breed is NOT for everyone (I can't stress that enough), however, he fit very well into my life and unlike some folks with this breed, I found him easy to train.