What causes this working difference? - Page 8

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by duke1965 on 24 January 2019 - 13:01

would say he is a prey advocate, nothing wrong with that, problem is that only top five percent of extreme preydogs is suitable for LE, the rest is sport and/or pet material, and most dont understand that

again, your statement is totally incorrect, that majority of dog's displaying defensive aggression with little provocation, can either be run or are insecure, so maybe he is testing the wrong dogs, or he is one of them all malis are great all GSD are bad , persons, who can tell ?

by apple on 24 January 2019 - 14:01

The belief about defensive dogs being run or insecure is his philosophy. My belief is that too many inexperienced people see some defensive dogs as tough, when in fact they are insecure. Plus, for a home deterrent dog, a defensive dog that presents the image of toughness is usually all that is needed for the average person. He definitely had a hard time finding good, healthy GSDs and switched to the unregistered KNPV X's. I could have driven less than two hours and had my pick from one of his breedings, but I stayed with a GSD that was flown about 2000 miles to me and am very satisfied with him so far.

by duke1965 on 24 January 2019 - 15:01

personally I think, that if you go to holland and look at dutch breedings, it will be easyer to find good mix malinois for LE than GSD in holland , but dogworld is a bit bigger than holland and actually the amount of dogs for LE that are BRED in holland is a small percentage of global demand

my findings (and Im sure I see much more dogs every week than him) is that LOTS of malis are having thin nerves, kennelissues and even, if biting strong in prey, are not police material,(quite a few fall apart when not triggered into drive ) and its easyer to find 20 good GSD or GSD mix, than to find 20 good malinois

 

emoryg

by emoryg on 24 January 2019 - 15:01

Jesse, thanks for that bit of information on the DDR patrol dogs being rehomed. I was not exposed to the DDR dogs until the early 90’s. For the most part I was impressed with what I saw. They worked well within the police dog community; excelling in tracking, and criminal apprehension. They tended to be sound, balanced drives, willing to please and strong loyalty to their handler. And were quite nice to look at as well!

Apple, thanks for posting the video. I think you misinterpreted what the decoy meant about not wearing any equipment. I think he was referring to exposed bite gear. As Duke said, he was wearing a hidden sleeve on his left arm. It’s hard to see unless you know what to look for. I see the open cuff and the characteristic wedge that forms on the arm. An even better indicator is the dog’s behavior as he anticipates a bite in his near future. After a while you get an eye for things like the leash climbing and the immediate focus on the decoy once the leash is handed off. I don’t think he was trying to mislead anyone that he was unprotected while giving the bite.

Duke, I never could get you video to play.

by duke1965 on 24 January 2019 - 15:01

maybe one operator can help out with that videoTongue Smile

by ValK on 24 January 2019 - 16:01

emoryg
those DDR dogs did come from same ancestors that Western dogs. their distinction was formed through breeding approach for particular type of characteristics, foremost temperamental/mental.
such approach can be repeated in any country but as i said earlier - not possible in commercial environment, where main  anxiety of all breeders is an assured lost part of revenue due to lose of segment of market for family pet type of GSD, which today consist 90% of overall market.
quite indicative talks of breeders, who from time to time participate in here. even those, who breed and sell "100% DDR" does base such breeding exclusively on pedigree, absolutely ignoring characteristics, which in fact did distinguished former Eastern dogs from their Western counterpart.

duke, how old is that dog and why you did cut off beginning of the test in that video?


by apple on 24 January 2019 - 16:01

emoryg,
I'm pretty sure he told me in the past that he was not wearing any equipment and ended up with an injury. Maybe he had a leather gauntlet on. He is a tough, former Marine.
Duke,
What you say makes sense. The unregistered KNPV X's are bred and outcrossed to other breeds with the primary purpose of developing police dogs. Also, KNPV was developed as a primer to help select police dogs, more so than other sports. And Holland is a very small country, so like you say, they can only produce so many dogs.
A friend was just telling me about a video of a Mal police dog that was trying to apprehend a guy and the guy grabbed two metal trash can lids to fight the dog off and he would not engage.

by duke1965 on 24 January 2019 - 17:01

Apple, a lot of prey dogs can take quite a bit of pressure WHEN ON THE BITE ,but picture changes when pressured before triggered into drive, or even when triggered but before bite

and for your info, I am from holland and sell young dogs into KNPV so I know a little bit about it LOL

by duke1965 on 24 January 2019 - 17:01

@ valk, I didnot cut off, you expect me to give him legbite there LOL, I just want to see dogs reaction to more passive approach, its easy to get a dog firing up jumping up and down, screaming and whipping 

by ValK on 24 January 2019 - 17:01

duke, i didn't suspect you in faking that presentation.
it just not clear - what was trigger for that dog to become agitated.
is there command was given?
preceding agitation?
dog's natural first reaction to any stranger? etc.


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