Comments on her please - Page 4

I do think sometimes too much emphasis is put on the calloused hock, and people make assumptions.  My American show line girl has them....but so does my German cross boy (who has less rear, and can't gait off his hock for the life of him).  So does my working line puppy!

Nothing more than wear and tear.

Elkoor, that dog in your last post doesn't look like the other ones !!! I mean the build is like the dogs I am used to 

Xeph, what you think is the cause for the callouses?

@ Ibrahim, yeah....I know, thats why I still have to have a job...LOL    (no "payday" on either side)

Xeph, what you think is the cause for the callouses?
Constant "up and down" motion on carpeting, playing tug on rough surfaces, my puppy has callouses on the back of his hocks due to the way he goes down the stairs at my house.

Obviously there are dogs that have callouses that ARE true hock walkers, I do think we just need to take in consideration that there are other reasons for calloused hocks as well.

The head is kept fairly small compared to the body, even the males have a more feminine head. The top of the neck is kept a bit narrow without any "loose" looking skin. The body is pronounced longer than a FCI-GSD. The shoulder blade is more layed back, bringing the upper arm up and making the upper arm look basically straight when in an ASL stack. To even the proportions and make "it look smooth/flowing to the eye" the sternum is more pertruding and the chest is deep, bringing in a curvature one could compare to a seahorse. The rear is long and actual the angulaton is normal (most SL are over angulated in the rear). The hocks however are long and slightly bend, making the hind leg look even longer. The bone structure is finer and dryer. The feet are usually flat with long toes.

Essentially I disagree with most of this, but I'm not going to get into much of it point by point.  Buy a canine movement book like Dog Steps and read about shoulder layback, prosternum, upper arms, length of neck, etc for yourself.

Head shape is in part a type setter and ASL dogs are bred for less stop, tighter lips and more almond shaped eyes rather than heavy Akita-type heads with the the shorter heavier muzzles that result from breeding for stallion type German males. Head shape is also a survival characteristic for the GSD and ASL breeders believe the muzzle should remain longer and more narrow to maintain a more patent airway,to prevent dogs from developing overly long soft pallets and to maintain a jaw that is long enough to accomodate full dentiton. A big head in a male GSD looks impressive but it may not be good for a dog that tends 24/7. Since most ASL and GSL's breeders don't work their dogs 24/7 all any GSD breeder have to go on is  the foundation dogs, whose heads seem to look more like ASL's, and other's dogs that do work 24/7.  This is what happened to pugs and other brachocephalic breeds, they too started out with "normal" heads and were turned into what they are today by the quirks of breeders and the demands of the show ring. Now most show pugs can't breath correctly, have bulging eyes that are prone to injury, no longer have full dentitiion or scissors bites. Essentially they are freaks of nature now.

Most ASL's I've seen and owned had feet that were very similar to the German dogs. Again the German dogs are almost alwasy photographed standing in grass where their feet are hidden.

If one looks closely at the hocks they have often callusses from walking on them. Thats the most critizised problem, you probably heard the word "hock walkers" before.

Never seen that, only the round dime sized calluses that form on the hocks of many different dogs of all breeds. They are the result of pressure over a bone where the hair coat is the thinnest. Is that what you are referring to?

Basically we are agreeing over how the head looks, you just describe it differently. I dont however agree on the "why". Even the GSL with the teddy heads have full dentition and no problem fitting all their teeth in. But the shorthening of the muzzle causes the lips to be loose, so here we agree again. But lets leave it by that; maybe we meet at a show one day and can have a more productive conversation. Right now it sounds like we want to argue.

Thank you for the suggestion to read a book, even though I think that hands-on with the kennel club is by far more illustrating. I actual do have a nice book about the ASL; even though its an old book called "The GSD today" by Strickland and Moses, it describes structure and movement and how they influence each other very well.

To the hocks, no..not dime sized round ones, but elongated ones. Even though none of my dogs have callouses besides on the elbows, I have seen them on different breeds of short hair type.

My suggestion to buy Dog Steps was meant for everyone. Maybe we are on the same page, but we are using way different terminology and reasons for specific traits in the breed. This is the biggest problem with breed boards and the net in general...no opportunity for face-to-face conversations so many things said in ernest are untentionally delivered and understood as argumentive.

I like the Strickland-Moses book too. Win was an amazing dog trainer, she taught her GSD's to do everything but drive a car and never used food to train them. I believe her dogs still hold the AKC record for number of perfect OB scores. I met her a few years back when she was still breeding an occasional litter, I don't think she shows anymore. She must be in her late 80's. When I lived in PA I used to watch for her to pull up at the OB ring in her convertible , top down, with 3, 4 GSD's with her in the car. When she took one in the ring, the others were platzed nearby until it was their turn.  I wish my dog bahaved half as well LOL.

I have honestly never noticed hock callouses like you have described. They must work those dogs on bikes for miles and miles in order to do that. I'll have to pay more attention next time.



 

I have noticed during years of large breed rescue ad rehab the calouses described here being on dogs who spent long time in crates.

Thank you everyone - I am thrilled with the response - I am in no way kennel blind but I am proud of my dogs and like hearing others opinions. I know there are no perfect dogs and am happy to keep breeding to better the breed. I will post another on here and look forward to hearing your opinions on them as well. 

Well for what my opinion is worth she is one of the nicest animals Ive seen on here for a while, quality, feminine with a beautiful clean outline no roach or dip in topline of noble appearance. STUNNING, loved her, be proud of her I would be more than proud & happy to own and exhibit an animal constructed like this bitch here in the UK.

Goldie 12