Introduction to Muzzle work - Page 2

Sam,
Very good points.

Are there dogs that refuse to engage the decoy when wearing a muzzle?  Like they think: why bother, I can't bite anyways?  Just curious, I don't think it will be a problem with Gryffon, but trying to see things from a dog's point of view. 

Yes, there are dogs that initially will not engage the decoy while wearing the muzzle.  This can be because of frustration, confusion or a dog going into avoidance and not wanting to commit to the fight.  You have to be able to read the dog and see what is causing the dog to not engage.  I have some very specific techniques for bringing out the fight in  dog that is reluctant to fight when wearing a muzzle.  Some are things that I won't discuss on a forum.  

Slam, Hired Dog and Samael -  all made excellent points;
 
Allow me to enter fray, I believe Slam is describing how to introduce an adult dog to muzzle work
because most departments purchase green dogs and then the department will finish the dog for Certification.  
 
Only the Police train and Certify Police dogs. All others raise and train Police Dog aspirants.
  
We start muzzle work with our pups around 6 weeks of age, we put a treat in the muzzle to begin.
Then as Slam said we distract the pup with play, a ball or a rag, very short sessions to start.
 
Anyone who is breeding, with the intention of eventually selling their pups as Police Dog aspirants should be doing this.
 
After several weeks of this (seen on several of our videos) the pup will run up and shove their face in the muzzle.
 
So, as Slam said.....the muzzle just becomes another piece of equipment (leash, choke chain, etc) which is
not associated with aggression work.
 
Once the dog has become accustomed to the muzzle it is important to keep the practice up at least once
a week for five or ten minutes.
 
To expand on what Samael said- Check your equipment, the Decoy/Helper should never take someone's word that
the muzzle is on correctly.
 
Have them show you! Have them lift the dog off the ground by the muzzle to prove it is on properly.
 
And, always wear protective gear- Vest, & cup. Many a strong dog has broken the ribs and caused damage to some
decoys family jewels.
 
It is natural to want to use your hands to grab at the dog while muzzle fighting, you cannot grab the muzzle,
what you can do is push the dog away with open palms.
 
Protect yourself at all times and come out fighting

Kim
 

KIm,
Great post!

motion seconded

One of you guys want to expand on the proper fitting of a muzzle. Different types. etc....... Pros and Cons of different types.

 

Jim would you say that some dogs, especially the civil ones by nature, will not engage because they know that they can not hurt the decoy if the muzzle is on? 

Samael-
 
Everyone is going to have different ideas about which muzzle is better, we use several different types of leather muzzles.
 
Ray Allen, Red Dog, I personally like the "Slammer" from K9 Dynamics.
 
If you need to fit a muzzle for your dog, you should try (before ordering one online) and fit someone else's muzzle to your dog.
 
It should be snug, but not to snug as to restrict breathing, and you want to allow a bit of room for the impact.
 
Which is why I like the Slammer, it has an inside piece of leather which allows for the impact.
 
LOL, Never use the Czech metal wire muzzles, they are not designed for actual muzzle fighting, they slip off
with the flick of a finger- which is what they are designed for.


Kim

Jim would you say that some dogs, especially the civil ones by nature, will not engage because they know that they can not hurt the decoy if the muzzle is on? 

I think with some strong dogs it is frustration, because they are used to getting a reaction and satisfaction from biting.  They are also used to equipment.  I have worked with some strong "civil" dogs that would engage initially and then stop when they felt they were not getting the response they were accustomed too.  I have seen dogs just stop and stand over the decoy not engaging.  It can be that the decoy is not enough of a threat to push the dog into defense.  With muzzle training the decoy is key and must really convince the dog that he means business and is a person to be concerned with.  If the dog no longer feels the decoy is a challenge or a threat there is no need to be "civil."  Remember there is no equipment to key the dog up, this is a very personal thing: the dog and the man.  Dogs higher in defense, lower in prey are the ones that seem to sometimes not engage as expected.  On the other hand, some serious dogs just keep driving in to the decoy the first time they do muzzle work, because they are all about the fight and will use everything they can.  I think with the "normally" strong, high drive dogs that stop engaging or fail to engage it comes down to a training issue.  Some dogs need to be shown how to muzzle fight and make the connection that even though the muzzle is on, they can still fight and win.  We teach our dogs that they can hurt the decoy if they muzzle fight with some serious intensity.   Each dog is different and we have several approaches / techniques for getting dogs to muzzle fight hard and move beyond not engaging.  We do a lot of muzzle work, it has some significant advantages over suit work for what we do.  

Slam- that was a great post!

In fact, I am copying it...printing it....and passing it around today at training!

Kim

Thanks for the vid of  Boomer, Slam, it answered my questions about muzzle work. I can see that not all dogs are going to handle that well. He's a very impressive dog. Showline people seldom get the chance to see a dog like him, a pity.