This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Pirates Lair on 12 August 2013 - 22:08
Peter- "You cannot learn from books IMO"
I have to say I am disappointed with your comment. First of all the Post asked for, among other things -Reading material
As well, I will have to assume that you have never read the book that I suggested.
IMO, you can learn a lot from books- especially the book that I suggested that everyone read.
And yes.......as you said it does take years to learn to be a Professional Decoy/Helper.
Who can learn the most from this book?
The people that believe they are, or call themselves Decoys/Helpers just because they wear a sleeve or get in a suit!
I get in a suit, wear hidden sleeves, sport sleeves etc.on a regular basis, but to insinuate that I am in any way a
Decoy/Helper would be insulting to my friends who are Professional Decoys/Helpers.
A REAL Professional Decoy/Helper is worth their weight in gold.
Read the book Peter, then let me know what you think.
Kim
I have to say I am disappointed with your comment. First of all the Post asked for, among other things -Reading material
As well, I will have to assume that you have never read the book that I suggested.
IMO, you can learn a lot from books- especially the book that I suggested that everyone read.
And yes.......as you said it does take years to learn to be a Professional Decoy/Helper.
Who can learn the most from this book?
The people that believe they are, or call themselves Decoys/Helpers just because they wear a sleeve or get in a suit!
I get in a suit, wear hidden sleeves, sport sleeves etc.on a regular basis, but to insinuate that I am in any way a
Decoy/Helper would be insulting to my friends who are Professional Decoys/Helpers.
A REAL Professional Decoy/Helper is worth their weight in gold.
Read the book Peter, then let me know what you think.
Kim
by samael28 on 12 August 2013 - 23:08
Kim is correct,,,,,, i am asking for every ones input on best seminars, books, camps, schools etc....... the top resources for the info.
Though i dont think a person can read a book and fully grasps all its concepts and put them to practical use over night, books are still a valuable resource.
so being thats what you probably meant i get it.
anyhow i am kind of wondering why less people chimed in here. as so many here either do helper work in clubs or hobby or professionally or claim to be able to read dogs well etc.......was hoping for a better turn out
Though i dont think a person can read a book and fully grasps all its concepts and put them to practical use over night, books are still a valuable resource.
so being thats what you probably meant i get it.
anyhow i am kind of wondering why less people chimed in here. as so many here either do helper work in clubs or hobby or professionally or claim to be able to read dogs well etc.......was hoping for a better turn out
by Slamdunc on 12 August 2013 - 23:08
Kim,
I have read the book "Decoys and Aggression" and it is an excellent book, and I have picked up quite a few pointers from that book over the years. Funny enough, I was looking through that book on Friday and it is on my Den coffee table.
I also agree about joining an excellent club and learning from excellent trainers and decoys. You have to have a variety of dogs to work from seasoned strong dogs, puppies and even weaker dogs. Work Show Line dogs, working line dogs, alternative breeds, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, Rotties and Bouviers. Have the patience to bring the weaker dogs along, have the nerve to work the sharper / more serious dogs and everything in between. Working a variety of dogs is the best teacher. Blocky head dogs like Rotties and Bouviers work differently than slimmer head dogs like GSD's and Mali's. Learn to recognize the difference, it will save you stitches. You need to learn to work dogs in prey and defense and when to do it and when not to do it. Working with a successful, large club with give you the variety of dogs that you need to learn on. As Peter mentioned it takes years to learn to be a "training helper." Anyone can be a trial helper in 6 months, but to train dogs takes years.
Reading books can offer excellent insight and I read everything I can. I have read every book written on tracking I can find, most books on Obedience, SchH/IPO, and every book on LE training. Books are great when you have a basis of understanding and can try some of the principals in a relatively controlled environment. I have an office set up in my house with large bookcases filled with books on all of my areas of interest. Books can enhance practical experience, but you still need to work lots of dogs.
I have read the book "Decoys and Aggression" and it is an excellent book, and I have picked up quite a few pointers from that book over the years. Funny enough, I was looking through that book on Friday and it is on my Den coffee table.
I also agree about joining an excellent club and learning from excellent trainers and decoys. You have to have a variety of dogs to work from seasoned strong dogs, puppies and even weaker dogs. Work Show Line dogs, working line dogs, alternative breeds, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, Rotties and Bouviers. Have the patience to bring the weaker dogs along, have the nerve to work the sharper / more serious dogs and everything in between. Working a variety of dogs is the best teacher. Blocky head dogs like Rotties and Bouviers work differently than slimmer head dogs like GSD's and Mali's. Learn to recognize the difference, it will save you stitches. You need to learn to work dogs in prey and defense and when to do it and when not to do it. Working with a successful, large club with give you the variety of dogs that you need to learn on. As Peter mentioned it takes years to learn to be a "training helper." Anyone can be a trial helper in 6 months, but to train dogs takes years.
Reading books can offer excellent insight and I read everything I can. I have read every book written on tracking I can find, most books on Obedience, SchH/IPO, and every book on LE training. Books are great when you have a basis of understanding and can try some of the principals in a relatively controlled environment. I have an office set up in my house with large bookcases filled with books on all of my areas of interest. Books can enhance practical experience, but you still need to work lots of dogs.
by vk4gsd on 13 August 2013 - 01:08
slam aren't you LEO or something, is this just not what you do for a living? would you have done all this reading and learning if you were say a plumber and only did play with dogs in yr spare time after a hard day plumbing.
i think the OP was referring to the rest of us when considering resources/training etc.
good as you might be (assuming) don't put yrself too high on a pedestal.
just sayin.
i think the OP was referring to the rest of us when considering resources/training etc.
good as you might be (assuming) don't put yrself too high on a pedestal.
just sayin.
by Pirates Lair on 13 August 2013 - 01:08
vk4GSD- Yes, Slam is a Police Officer and K9 Handler
With all due respect I think you are misreading his words. Does being Police Officer and K9 Handler make him an expert on handling and training dogs? No
What makes a Police Officer and K9 Handler an expert is demonstrated by Slams continuous passion to learn, train, attend seminars etc. He does not, as many people do......cut and paste his words from the internet.
I have known many Police Officers who possess the title of K9 Handler and they are what I refer to as "A slug who drives around with a dog in his Cruiser".
And, I know a small handful of Professional Police Officer/K9 Handlers/Trainers - Slam is one of those professionals.
JMO, you might want to listen to what he says.......I do.
Kim
With all due respect I think you are misreading his words. Does being Police Officer and K9 Handler make him an expert on handling and training dogs? No
What makes a Police Officer and K9 Handler an expert is demonstrated by Slams continuous passion to learn, train, attend seminars etc. He does not, as many people do......cut and paste his words from the internet.
I have known many Police Officers who possess the title of K9 Handler and they are what I refer to as "A slug who drives around with a dog in his Cruiser".
And, I know a small handful of Professional Police Officer/K9 Handlers/Trainers - Slam is one of those professionals.
JMO, you might want to listen to what he says.......I do.
Kim
by Pirates Lair on 13 August 2013 - 01:08
samael- "Though i dont think a person can read a book and fully grasps all its concepts and put them to practical use over night, books are still a valuable resource".
To Clarify- I never suggested you could learn to be a Decoy from just reading a book. I just suggested a Great Book to Read.
Once you start learning (practical aspects) , you will learn more and more from the book........theoretical aspects.
Which I believe is what Slam was trying to say, unfortunately, I am not as eloquent or patient as Slam is when it comes to responding to post.
Kim
To Clarify- I never suggested you could learn to be a Decoy from just reading a book. I just suggested a Great Book to Read.
Once you start learning (practical aspects) , you will learn more and more from the book........theoretical aspects.
Which I believe is what Slam was trying to say, unfortunately, I am not as eloquent or patient as Slam is when it comes to responding to post.
Kim
by samael28 on 13 August 2013 - 02:08
kim----
I was agreeing with your post completely. As well a Jims. hope you werent taking it any other way.
Not disagreeing with either of you.
And to be honest I looked the book up on amazon to try to get it. which I probably will here in the next few weeks. and will add it to the collection. Glad you brought it up.
I do feel with all the videos, books, seminars, camps, schools etc.... out their people could give more than one book to add to a list of resources.
not saying one thing makes a helper. but as you said the person that looks at and utilizes all his resources backed with training and experience is how you get good at anything. So would like for more people to add to really see a nice list.
I was agreeing with your post completely. As well a Jims. hope you werent taking it any other way.
Not disagreeing with either of you.
And to be honest I looked the book up on amazon to try to get it. which I probably will here in the next few weeks. and will add it to the collection. Glad you brought it up.
I do feel with all the videos, books, seminars, camps, schools etc.... out their people could give more than one book to add to a list of resources.
not saying one thing makes a helper. but as you said the person that looks at and utilizes all his resources backed with training and experience is how you get good at anything. So would like for more people to add to really see a nice list.
by Pirates Lair on 13 August 2013 - 02:08
samael- Agreed
Unfortunately there is a small number of people on this forum who are sincerely interested in helping you seek the information you are requesting.
I would like to hear from others (as I am sure Slam is) as well. When I worked my PSD I spent time with as many other Agency Handlers as I could. Went to Schutzhund/French Ring Trials etc. I don't work Sport dogs but I learned some very nice stuff by watching them.
I didn't have to, after a hard days work I could have gone home. But I wanted to learn more, so I spent my days off picking the brains of handlers and trainers.
Watching them work, watching their dogs work.
Hopefully , others will join this thread..... and alI of us can pick up some new ideas.
Kim
Unfortunately there is a small number of people on this forum who are sincerely interested in helping you seek the information you are requesting.
I would like to hear from others (as I am sure Slam is) as well. When I worked my PSD I spent time with as many other Agency Handlers as I could. Went to Schutzhund/French Ring Trials etc. I don't work Sport dogs but I learned some very nice stuff by watching them.
I didn't have to, after a hard days work I could have gone home. But I wanted to learn more, so I spent my days off picking the brains of handlers and trainers.
Watching them work, watching their dogs work.
Hopefully , others will join this thread..... and alI of us can pick up some new ideas.
Kim
by bebo on 13 August 2013 - 02:08
have a look at raiser's pressing im schutzdienst and triebwechsel im schutzdienst. seminal work, imo. i think the pressing dvds are now available in english. dave kroyer offers weekend and week long seminars a few times a year; micheal ellis' got a two week course a few times a year. friend of mine took the plunge and did a glisnik bootcamp earlier this summer and liked it a lot. don't discount the ringsport guys as a resource. imo, x-training hasn't hurt anybody, or dog, just yet.
by Slamdunc on 13 August 2013 - 03:08
Vk4gsd's,
Yes, I am a Police Officer and K9 Handler. Yes, I did a lot of reading and training when decoying and SchH was just a hobby before I became a K-9 handler and trainer. No pedestal, just agreeing with Kim and Peter who are probably far better than me. Yes, I have had this book and have also read Raiser's before I was a K-9 Handler.
bebo,
I got into SchH / IPO in 1994 and started buying and reading every book I could back then. I know Armin Winkler and many others that know Raiser. I have also made it a habit to attend every seminar I can on working dogs and other things that I am interested in. For what I do, ringsport, SchH and KnPV offers a lot of skills and techniques. I have trained with some very skilled and knowledgeable ringsport, SchH and KNPV guys. It helps to watch and learn from the best.
When I was into Martial arts I attended seminars and trained with Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Remy Presas, James Demile, John Chung, Dan Inosanto and Renfro Barret to name just a few. There is no substitute for hands on experience and training. I also own a large collection of books on Martial arts and training. I have learned a lot from those books, but sparring and seminars have taught me the real skills. I did this before becoming a Defensive tactics instructor for my Police Dept. Same with decoying, hands on experience is needed. When the experience is there a lot can be learned from the writings of skilled people and good books.
Yes, I am a Police Officer and K9 Handler. Yes, I did a lot of reading and training when decoying and SchH was just a hobby before I became a K-9 handler and trainer. No pedestal, just agreeing with Kim and Peter who are probably far better than me. Yes, I have had this book and have also read Raiser's before I was a K-9 Handler.
bebo,
I got into SchH / IPO in 1994 and started buying and reading every book I could back then. I know Armin Winkler and many others that know Raiser. I have also made it a habit to attend every seminar I can on working dogs and other things that I am interested in. For what I do, ringsport, SchH and KnPV offers a lot of skills and techniques. I have trained with some very skilled and knowledgeable ringsport, SchH and KNPV guys. It helps to watch and learn from the best.
When I was into Martial arts I attended seminars and trained with Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, Remy Presas, James Demile, John Chung, Dan Inosanto and Renfro Barret to name just a few. There is no substitute for hands on experience and training. I also own a large collection of books on Martial arts and training. I have learned a lot from those books, but sparring and seminars have taught me the real skills. I did this before becoming a Defensive tactics instructor for my Police Dept. Same with decoying, hands on experience is needed. When the experience is there a lot can be learned from the writings of skilled people and good books.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top