Let's talk about inbreeding - Page 1

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by Ilovemybreed on 11 October 2018 - 02:10

What are some opinions about a farther to daughter breeding or half siblings?

by duke1965 on 11 October 2018 - 04:10

inbreeding is only usefull if the actual dogs used for breeding carry desired qualitys and complement each other,if so, it is powerfull tool, if not, it is like any other breeding 

darylehret

by darylehret on 11 October 2018 - 07:10

Resulting phenotypes from parental phenotypes can lead to unexpected results as well. As example, I bred a large male (88#) to his smallish daughter, in which one male pup exceeded his sire's size at 12 months age, outside the range of probable expectation.

by duke1965 on 11 October 2018 - 08:10

Daryl, that is because, even if you do a 2-2 breeding there are tons of variables still and even the dog doubled up on has tons of variables him/herself, will start to work better as soon as the dog inbreeding on, is a result of inbreeding himself

DuganVomEichenluft

by DuganVomEichenluft on 11 October 2018 - 10:10

I remember (in my dog world community) when inbreeding was taboo. At least in German Shepherds and a couple other breeds I was around. I think genetics are very unpredictable. Even out-crossing, you never know what you're going to get. Same with line-breeding and inbreeding. To inbreed, one REALLY should know the pedigree to its fullest. You can get an amazing pup but the other spectrum is, a VERY bad pup. It's whether that chance wants to be taken.

Brandi

by duke1965 on 11 October 2018 - 11:10

Brandi, if inbreeding, you will not get higher percentage of bad pups than with any outcross combination, presuming you breed with healthy dogs to begin with, but that is what is expected with outcrossing just the same

 

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 11 October 2018 - 15:10

Duke, you are wrong about that.

EVERY animal carries a number of harmful recessive genes that are no 'expressed' (don't show up) because they are masked by dominant genes.

If you breed two closely related animals together, the chances of getting a double recessive for these harmful genes is very high. And getting a double recessive means the problem WILL show up!

It's a gamble, and I don't recommend it, unless you are a VERY experienced breeder that knows the lines of both dogs going back many generations.

Of course, it must be followed up by outcrossing on the resulting pups, to compensate for the close inbreeding.

by duke1965 on 11 October 2018 - 15:10

Sun, sorry but you are wrong, lets take any recessive gene and you tell me where you can guarantee that you dont double it up in an outcross, and in cases where you can test, its also the same for outcross as for linebreeding,

then your second or third linebred generation will be even higher percentage without problems, if done right

your latest line is also opposing the truth, you must outcross every now and then, when linebreeding, preferably to another inbred line, to bring in qualities your line is missing, 

mother nature inbreeds for thousands of years without a problem, people outcross the breed for a few decades and look how much diversity and problems the GSD breed has


Koots

by Koots on 11 October 2018 - 16:10

Even out-crossing, you never know what you're going to get. Same with line-breeding and inbreeding.

This is true of out-crossing, it is more of a 'toss the deck' type of breeding.   But line-breeding is used to increase the probability that you will be seeing the parent's phenotype characteristics that you wish to pass on.    Unless there are very specific phenotypic traits in both male and female that you wish to select for, a really close in-breeding is something that only a very experienced breeder with great knowledge of the lines (positive and negative traits) should be attempting, IMO.   

by joanro on 11 October 2018 - 16:10

Comparing natural selection, which eliminates faults that are counter to survival, with artificial selection is proving nothing about the quality of artificial selection offspring.

Too much isolation of groups of animals in the wild which forces too much in breeding will weaken the group till they die off, ie, inbreeding depression.


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