Let's talk about inbreeding - Page 8

Joan would be good as an admin or maybe she is already? She’ll report you then email you under her admin name.

well SS, I don't know how to move it and I really don't know how I got on the APBT forum. I only link to GSD forum.

I will also say (and I have firsthand experience with the GSD breeders you posted about) you only touched the tip of the iceberg and are pretty much the only one making sense right now.

apologies to APBT folks and I will try to exit your world.

 

Rik

Southern, I never have and never intend to communicate with you in prrivate message...further, I have never "reported you" to admins. But if you get too weirded out, I could....no point in it.

ok SS, I see where I went wrong. I have been hitting "latest posts" and will make an effort to stick to GSD forum. thanks for the heads up.

Rik

You only mentioned them for their looks....frequently. on this thread and on others on a different forum many years ago.

Zebras seem to be your go-to in order to justify inbreeding gsd.

Gsd is only a breed within a species whereas the zebre is a species....that is the falacy or your zebra example.

oh, just as an apology to the APBT folks, if you want to inbreed or line breed, do every available test or evaluation available.

seek out healthy, no known issue dogs. pretty much good advice inbreed or out cross.

cull ruthlessly if it doesn't work and don't repeat.

and read the post SS made about inbreeding on Lance. It is all true, but today, the ASL is much healthier, much more stable in structure, better character (not saying good) and still all backmass to Lance (the dogs she is referring are several generations ago in the ASL GSD}, just better choices by breeders.

jmo,
Rik

two thumbs up, Rik!

And for those of you who don't know Rik, he was there, showing American show line dogs, and saw the things I am talking about happen back in the the day.

So, now you have evidence from THREE very experienced people (Linda Shaw, breeder and author of The Illustrated Standard for the GSD, Louise Penery, former ASL breeder, and Rik, former ASL breeder), saying what an awful state the breed was in a couple of decades ago.

It may be 'anecdotal evidence', but it truly reflects what happened. All three of these people were so upset that they switched to the German dogs instead.

I know of many other people who also left the breed, and one person who tried to start her own breed, based on the GSD, but minus the problems.

duke1965

Valk, my take on dogs dying younger; kibble, medications, flea and worm treatments and so on

don't think it's a case. back then dog food didn't exist at all. all food was natural, plenty of fat, bones, low grade meat and such, not consumable for humans. vet did come to do few puppy shots and then once a month to check on pups/youngsters.
dogs, which did remained in our private possesion, pretty much continued to live on that things. never used any medication becouse never had needs for it. dogs was truly very healthy. even fleas issue was dealt by natural way with mugwort weed.

Sunsilver

Valk, yes I believe it is due to inbreeding. Read my post about the ASL dogs, which were all backmassed on Lance and his progeny. It was getting to be such a problem with dogs dying young that the GSDCA started the Thirteen Club, for dog who made it to 13 years or older.

i did read but it's not similar to what i know.
these dogs didn't collapse suddenly in middle of something. up to that age they did remain active. then you start to notice decline, which typicaly lasted for 2 to 4 weeks, before your dog gone. 
actually that age was considered to be normal lifespan. frankly i was impressed last my dog did pass 12 year mark, before he gone.

Val, what are your dogs? Show line or working line?

My last 3 shepherds all made it to a good age. Two made it to 14, and my current dog, an ASL/GSL cross is 11 years old and very healthy. I'm sure she's got a couple of years left still.

I'm an old fart, grew up with Rin Tin Tin and Lassie on TV, and the lifespan for the GSD was considered to be 12 to 14 years at that time. I recently heard the AKC says they now consider it to be about 9 years! So, yes, SOMETHING has changed!! 

lol SS, now that's "old days" on PDB..

someone don't tell me what you know, show me your dog.

regards,
Rik