HD in puppies - Page 4

DH, Sorry for the delay in answering your question. I have no idea what the pup was on floor wise before I got her at 10 weeks old. Here she's not on anything slippery. I will make an appointment and get her in soon for the x rays. The breeder used and I do to the food called Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's soul. I have about 20 pounds of the puppy left and will change her over to adult on the next bag. The food you like is not available in my area, the Chicken Soup is the best quality I can do in my very small mid-west town. Thanks for the information though, you are very knowledgable and I take your word for what you have to say. Arrakis

Hi there D.H.! You state: "They have a rather high level of dogs screened within their population, they have a very high level of HD free dogs. They provide records on some FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND GSD!" Of the 554.596 somewhat dogs provided in the records, only 33.23% is actually screened on x-rays. I would not call that "a rather high level" within the population. And remember, only "the elite" gets x-rayed, when the doggies got a reasonable chance of doing well in sports, shows, and/or breeding. (And the records do not include/or correct the results of thousands of pictures of dysplastic dogs that were never sent in.) Based on this amount of over half a million gsd's (a quarter of all gsd's ever born and registered), only 19.02% have HD-1, and 7.78% have HD-2. HD-3 noch zugelassen have 3.64%. That is NOT impressing, IMO. At least it is not proving we're doing a good job. As long as people continue to breed and sell dysplastic dogs (and defend it), and there are people out there ACCEPTING this, we will not see any improvement. For Brittany: Only 6.052 records of ED-evaluation have been entered in same database so far. With this 1.09% from the population, one can not withdraw any conclusions yet.

Jantie, I disagree strongly. With at least half of the pups going into pet homes, these will never make it into any stats. And they are not needed. Most of these pups were placed in pet home to begin with, never intended to enter the breeding pool. A third of a population screened is very representative for the whole population. Your math example above is sliiiiiiiighly off. You went ahead and divided the percentage by the total number of dogs which is not how statistics work. For starters your numbers will not add up to 100. If you screen 100 or 1000 or 10000 dogs, that number then becomes a representation of the whole. You do NOT take the results and divide them by the actual population. The advantage of a higher number of dogs screened are more accurate the results. That does not mean that you go from nearly 60% of HDa1 hips to 70%. With such high numbers its usually the percentage points behind the decimal that get more accurate. The reason for statistics is to determine trends based on an average. You need much fewer numbers than a third of a population to determine such a trend. Interesting that according to your own calculations up there only 2 and half percent of GSD would be dysplastic then. Hardly a problem to take seriously with only less than 3% of the population affected!? And only less than 4% of a3 dogs, with most of these dogs never getting bred. So where was your problem with this? You want Zero? Right! Another issue where you are way off is that dogs get screened well before their true potential can be evaluated. The process usually works the other way around as you describe. First screen to see if the effort is worth it, then continue, and see how well the dog will really do. Or are you saying that every owner and breeder can tell a dogs potential at one year of age!?!? Surely...

Brit best to check online for more details. There are several issues that can affect elbwos. Some baiscs: It can be detected as early as 6 months, but not before, so prescreening before then is inconclusive. Often waiting an extra month or two will get more accurate results. Reason being that the bones on the elbow fuse together during the early growth phase and are not fully fused until about 6 month of age. Several of these bones may not attach properly, so just one x-ray of a ED will not do you any good to see what ED looks like. The bones that do not attach can usually be removed surgically. If caught early the prognosis is usually good. Same as in HD arthitic changes can ocurr as well though, so early is the key. Overall ED is less prevalent than HD. But, it can be more debilitating than HD because most of the weight is born by the front and the elbow is not supported by such large muscle groups as the hip. Elbows are very vulnurable to twisting and jarring motion in a young dog. Same as with slow growth of the dog being beneficial for proper hip development, not overstressing elbows is just as important. Big, chubby puppies are not good for elbows, or any joints. Constant stop and go from playing with a ball is not the best either. Or jumping. All pups born after January 2004 now have to be ED stamped in order to get the KKL. From 2006 on dogs can only VA if they have an ED stamp.

I have sent you the entire statistic by e-mail DH. Let me know what's wrong with it, will you please? You're very funny! Adding the population of the not x-rayed dogs (assuming they all have perfect hips) to the "very few displastic doggies" and thus proving we don't have a problem at all. Hilarious.

The Arrogant HUMANS manipulte the genetis of dogs to fit the fancy of the moment, GOTTA GET THOSE RIBBONS AND TROPHIES, thus creating more health issues in all breeds of dogs that nature would not have allowed. But you can't blame us, after all we are just.......Human

MANIPULATE THE GENETICS I can't spell worth a damn.

For an excellent description of elbow dysplasia, with photos of xrays and diagrams, gotothe OFA website.

On the subject of hip scores, I just read a recent article that states" In an American study, three board certified radiologists were asked to evaluate hip extended x-rays from 65 dogs that had been scored by the OFA. Two of the evaluators agreed with the OFA diagnosis in less than 50% of the cases. The 3rd radiologist, who regularly interprets for the OFA, had an overall agreement on the score of 61%.The same x-rays were then re-presented to the same radiologists at another time and the agreement with their original hip scores ranged between 48% and 75%. Therefore there was a considerable difference on hip score, not only between radiologists, but also by the same radiologist at different times." GSD League of Great Britain news letter. FYI. Maybe I'll have my next dog evaluated by Penn Hip.