What do you see in this vid? - Page 8

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Western Rider (admin)

by Western Rider on 13 August 2020 - 00:08

TWC I think that is a collective "you" not a personal "you"


by Rik on 13 August 2020 - 08:08

really, if we did not rehash stuff, there would not be anything to talk about currently. it's pretty much all been said before, on practically any subject.

Koots

by Koots on 13 August 2020 - 12:08

I did say before, but think it got buried, that I believe my pup is showing signs of dominance towards other dogs but not to me. The difference being dog-dog dominance vs dog-person dominance.

I have heard of a friend's GSD, imported from Holland with KNPV1 MET LOF, being that dominant kind of dog that Hired refers to as PITA. This dog only ever accepted 1 person as his 'boss' - the original owner/handler, as evidenced in the video I saw of his training and titling effort. With the original handler, the dog was submissive, but ALL other people were 'to be pissed on'. It took my friend a long time before he could get the dog to 'cooperate' with him, not by force but by coersion and fair play. The dog worked for him but never really accepted him as 'boss', so my friend had to handle this dog wisely to avoid conflict. I had a pup from this dog - my pup did not display this 'dominance' character trait but was a strong enough dog to become a LE K9.

by ValK on 14 August 2020 - 00:08

Koots, as long as such dog do not have highly reactive or impulsive temperament, i wouldn't call it PITA. this strong loyalty trait was a typical in border breeding. sometime ago in another discussion i mentioned - during active duty at border dog usually had 4 handlers. for new handler have been allocated 4 month of transition. during that time he did work in team with old handler. doesn't mean all dogs was in need of 4 month but that was rule, taken from years of practice and experience. dogs weren't "greeter" type :)
as for dominance - some dogs can show that attitude toward human due to being spoiled. but that fake dominance and being applied by dog only to familiar person/s.
some dogs can have true dominanta but doesn't mean they are in permanent search for objects to submit them. BE is right. dominant dogs very selfreliant proud dogs and do not waste their breath on small things. what they for sure don't like is a challenge. and here can be big problem because from this point we have direct link to dog's innate nature, dog's temperament and intelligence. impulsive, highly reactive dog may assess anything as a challenge and accordingly react.

by apple on 14 August 2020 - 06:08

If you are saying genetic dominance is a loyalty trait I would say it is the opposite. It is the urge for superiority and status and the handler will be challenged which is not consistent with loyalty.

by ValK on 14 August 2020 - 09:08

you're correct. that is why plenty of time for transitional period under guidance of previously accepted handler was allocated.
loyalty will come in after handler have gained trust and respect from dog. it's can take quite long time.
participation in process of old handler reduces psychological stress for both, dog and new handler and makes process smoother and bloodless.

b.t.w. dominance is not the loyalty trait, as you put it.
it's rather not willingness to subordinate to someone, who not worthy of respect in dog's mind.


by Hired Dog on 14 August 2020 - 09:08

Valk, with true genetic dominance, your agenda better match the dog's agenda, every time, or you will always have problems.
There is no respect from this type of dog, there is only traveling down the same path together and our paths better never cross.

by ValK on 14 August 2020 - 10:08

i already previously told - dominance not have strict fixed value.
it is varying from dog to dog trait, from full absence to an extreme form and can be assessed by interacting with and observing the dog.

Koots

by Koots on 14 August 2020 - 10:08

Valk - I meant that Hired dog's comments about a true dominant dog indicate that type of dog is a PITA to live, and work with, as that dog always wants to be boss and will fight handler anytime dog's agenda and person's agenda do not align.

Regarding the dog that my friend had - I don't think my friend ever really got 'loyalty' from that dog, he got cooperation because my friend knew better than to fight against the dog but to work with the dog.   And when I say fight against the dog, I mean try to impose will upon the dog physically, when the dog does not want to cooperate.


by Nans gsd on 14 August 2020 - 13:08

Personally I do not enjoy working a dog that is dominant; takes the fun right out of training. You will butt heads forever and a day, not enjoyable at all.





 


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