Difference between.... - Page 2

You’re probably trying to figure out the difference between civil and “nerve” not “nervy.” Nervy is basically the extreme of nerve. A nervy dog, is an unstable dog. A dog with “some nerve” is generally considered quicker to respond to a threat and is a bit more suspicious of its surroundings than a dog that is considered to have “strong nerves.” Dogs with nerve are easier to convince that there is a threat and in general easier to get to light up and bark or even bite someone or something. Dogs with strong nerves are harder (in the beginning) to get to bark and sometimes to bite because they just don’t recognize threats the way a dog with “some nerve” does. This is basically why civil aggression is thrown in with these terms as a dog with nerve is more likely to react to a real threat and do something about it. It takes a lot more “threat” to get a dog with strong nerves to bite and therefore they are not considered to have civil aggression…they just don’t see people as threats and there is no need for them to react to them. Strong nerves generally come with a prey balanced animal, nerve is generally seen in more defense based animals. There is also a component of threshold in there where a strong nerved dog with a low threshold might still react pretty quickly to a perceived threat (even if it isn’t one).

In regards to nerve when it comes to sport…many people like the strongest of nerves because it basically makes it impossible to run the dog. A dog with very very strong nerves, will never see the helper/decoy/man as a threat and so everything is a game or play to them. Dogs with very strong nerves tend to have more trouble barking at times because when they don’t get a response from the helper, they give up on barking. These dogs are also the ones that commonly bark in prey because they’re basically just taught that they HAVE to bark in a blind even though it won’t get them anything. A dog with some nerve on the other hand doesn’t have an issue barking because there is something inside of it that believes the helper is a threat, so the dog generally barks deeper (more defensive) and will continue to bark because there is an unknown attack that might occur. Those dogs are also considered larger flight risks because they do think they’re actually fighting the helper and a big enough, strong enough, or just weird helper might scare them to the point of giving up the fight and resorting to flight.

Of course as in all things there should be a good balance of all of these things in a GSD. A healthy amount of nerve is not a bad thing IMO for sport and it is something that is looked for in street work because it causes the natural suspicion of the environment you’d want in a patrol dog.

If you followed my discussion in a prior thread about the things people say about dogs and how you can't always believe what people say, you have to understand WHY they're saying what they're saying. A term like "nervy" or "has nerve" is considered a negative because of that flight risk that I speak of. So someone using that term about a dog is USUALLY, not always, trying to take a dig at the dog. Even though, like I stated, there are positive things that come from a good amount of nerve in a dog that are useful in most venues. Dogs with nerve sometimes take longer to develop and do need to be worked cautiously before they're truly comfortable with their natural suspicion/aggression...but if done properly and with a healthy balance of prey they can become extremely powerful dogs.

Thank you Tig, I will take your word for that, I don't know any better 

 

What comes to my mind as a human when I hear the word nervy is its sister nervous, and if I may define nervy in simple words it is a dog that reacts to everything, even non threatening little things. A nervy dog isn't good for you if you're living in a home in the middle of an orchard in autumn when leaves fall on the ground and wind blows them making strange noise 

with some many nuanced and variable definitions wreaks of not much more than an indicative understanding.

Mithuna

How long have you owned GSDs? How many dogs have you actually seen in person worked or laid hands on in protection, obedience, herding? How many trials of any of the above have you gone to and stayed all day and beyond? Have you ever scribed for a judge in any dog activity or worked as a ring steward or a decoy? How many dogs have you trained and titled?

This is a discussion that requires at it's core some familiarity in person with the concepts being discussed not a I read it on the web kind of knowledge. I suggest you take BW advice and get out in the real world - both you and your dog will be better for it.

OP a quick perusal of Mithuna's previous posts should suggest to you his lack of experience and knowledge.

A "civil dog", has always meant a dog who will bite a man without need of the stimulation of any sort of equipment. Usually followed by ..."is a real dog."

The thresholds and drives that motivate the civil dog are always argued to the nth degrees.

I think understanding civil ( as a term ) is relatively easy. Nervy is sort of (weird term) not clear, not bright. Sharp can be understood but gets confusing when it is associated with other traits/characteristics like Tig explained above. I keep away from using such terms fearing I am not understanding what I see from the dog 100% or not knowing the boundaries of the term itself

Q: The difference between the OP, and Mithuna ?

Cutaway is prepared to acknowledge and investigate
possible differences in definitions and misunderstandings,
whereas Mithuna knows all the answers, no matter what
anyone else suggests, defines, or tells him to seek by
'going and doing'... JMHO

BTW, very good descriptive post ^^^by Bav.Wagon. Makes
a lot of sense put that way.

Great info here, thank you...

"A dog with “some nerve” is generally considered quicker to respond to a threat and is a bit more suspicious of its surroundings than a dog that is considered to have “strong nerves.” Dogs with nerve are easier to convince that there is a threat and in general easier to get to light up and bark or even bite someone or something."---Bavarian Wagon 

This is something that i see with this dog. Plus i can easily "push his button" to get him to react to me just by looking at him and adding just the slightest bit of physical presense from my body, a slight lean forward with a slight shoulder roll foward. Dog will light up quick...

One of the instances that caused this dog to be labeled 'nervy' was: Dog was in a bark & hold with a very experienced helper. A second person was on the back line to give a easy correction if the dog moved in to much on the hold (pretty common practice). But on the first correction dog left the helper, turned and moved into the guy on the back line to check him out. Dog did not do this aggressively but instead more of a "Who the hell do you think you are" and then quickly turned back and went back to the back and hold.

The two common descriptions of this dog from others are: 1) dog is a little nervy 2) He is a "real". The dog quickly recovers from pressure, shows the threat of comming back up the line on the handler when given a hard unfair correction. Now i will also say the dog is a "prey monster", he locks up on prey objects, ball, frisbee ect... He has full grips on the sleeve, bites deep and will continue to push in (trying to get him to bite deep and pull back now). Does not really precieve the helper as a threat unless helper gets after him (like when we were working the outs), dogs reaction was to then go around/over/under the sleeve and bite the helper. 

i really appriciate everyone's feedback on this topic especially since i have been trying to understand these differences for a few years now

Please pardon me if I am not as quick to learn

Tig and Bavarian Wagon,
Is Cutaway understanding correct and precise?
If yes, then is it safe to claim that a nervy dog is a better guarding dog?
Then a little nervy is a good thing in a working dog?

I think I am confused, nervy = slightly weak nerves ?

 

After reading Bavarian post I see she is the one who said this:

 

"A dog with “some nerve” is generally considered quicker to respond to a threat and is a bit more suspicious of its surroundings than a dog that is considered to have “strong nerves.” Dogs with nerve are easier to convince that there is a threat and in general easier to get to light up and bark or even bite someone or something."---Bavarian Wagon 

 

This is confusing really, it will be nice if you care to explain more and answer my above questions, no challenging here but learning, I think what you said is a bit strange