Schutzhund question: do those dogs need that sleeve? - Page 5

Jim:

             If i,m not mistaken your talking about presence and being able to convince the dog of your intent.

Bob,
That is exactly right.  The best analogy I can give is Mike Tyson at the height of his career.  When he entered the ring it was obvious what his intentions were.  He didn't just want to win the fight, he really wanted to hurt the other guy.  It was as if really hurting his opponent was just as important to him as winning.  This is the message he conveyed when he walked into the ring and during the stare down.  This is the presence the decoy must have and convey to the dog.  The dog must believe the decoy is a very dangerous adversary. 

Working a dog in this fashion is different than running around and working a dog in prey.  Anyone can work a dog yelling, screaming, banging plastic bottles filled with rocks or cracking a whip, but they often don't convey this message.  A skilled decoy will be able to simply walk up to the dog and unsettle the dog or cause a reaction.  This is done without equipment, no suit, sleeves or scratch pants.   Not every decoy can do this and truly convince the dog that they are a really "bad guy" with bad intentions.  

How far you push the dog depends on several factors, mainly how much the dog can take.  It is critical that the decoy can read the dog and let the pressure off when the dog is really strong.  The goal is for the decoy to communicate by his presence that he is a serious threat, engage the dog and then the dog wins.  A bite is not even necessary when doing this.  The dog wins by being stronger and tougher than his opponent and reacting to the pressure with increasing levels of aggression. 

FWIW,

Jim


 

I loved to watch Mike Tyson fight when he was focused. I believe most other boxer were scarred of him at that time. Tyson vs Spinks in 88 to me was his most awesome fight ever KO in the 1 st round. That is truly the definition of presence and intent.

  

That was the fight I was thinking of also.  Great fight.  If as a decoy you have a presence like that you will make a big impression on the dog and the dog will be much better for it.

Most decoys I see can't do this and wind up doing a mediocre acting job, which I think is more confusing to the dog than anything.

Jim

I am new to all fo this and didn't know how big a role the decoy's played.  I thought it was just put on the sleeve or suit, get the dog wound up y yelling and waving stick and then wait for the dog to bite.  I see this is a real science here.

So much is put on the dog and their ability/nerve but I see that the wrong decoy can actually mess up your dog more than anything.

A lot of knowledge here, thanks for all of the good info shared so far.

A bad helper can make a very good dog bad. A good helper can make a mediocre dog look good. For many reasons a helper can be bad. Only knows one way to work a dog, cannot properly read a dog and doesn't know how to adjust. Some are good training helpers and others are just good trial helpers.

That is why we should thank all the great helpers out there! I am thankfull that mine is a fantastic teaching helper and a trial helper, I do believe that he has a little too much presence and I can see him chase weak dogs off the field just by standing there... actually I withessed that. Not in a trial...

Pack

GSDpack Why is your helper running weak dogs? And a good helper can control his presence. Goes back to being able to read a dog and adjust. Building the dogs confidence, not your own.

Sam,

I can see how you think the helper chased a dog off the field.. he didnt. All he did, was walk out on the field... that was it! He did not do a thing. I watched him he was actually still talking to me and this dog just did one of those "oh Shit" tail in between the legs, and hid behind the owner. The helper instantly just walked away..... this dog just could not handle him. HE could not even sneeze without the dog falling appart.


It was more an example of a presence that effected a dog to the extent it did without the helper actually pushing at all. He was just himself. This was a very weak and nervy dog as we learned quickly... I have not seen a dog do that since.
It didnt come out right.

Well that is one weak dog.