Schutzhund question: do those dogs need that sleeve? - Page 4

Nice post ramgsd

There are a lot of dogs who are very "sporty" in schutzhund. It is simply a game to them. These same dogs can also posses some nice aggression if they have it in them...

But there are dogs who are "real" in the work, with plenty of civil drive.

Amanda

I have both, an IPO titled dog and a PPD.  My IPO girl would probabky kiss a mugger and try to get him to play while my PPD dog will react very differently to stop a threat.  When we were training I sent him out after the decoy, who slipped the sleeve after the dog had it, the dog promptly spit it out and went for the crotch.  He did not care about the sleeve but he was going to eat the man.

Ditto to Yoshy. Thought this stuff was common sense.

Feather....................that is the most utterly ridiculous statement I've read on here since the last one I read. LOL

evidentally not-

waited for Jim to say something but after feather comment couldnt help it. this topic is like a beatn down ol nag. how many times will it come up?

did you not get my PM jenni the other day?

Yoshy, funny because I never responded to this thread because it has decomposed worse than Barbaro. But I do have one question for you. You stated earlier that people come out and their dogs can't handle the situation because of a lack of training. I'm just trying to understand, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant, but why are you running someone's dog on their first time out that you know doesn't have the training. Didn't you say in the same post, that you have to build their confidence? I just don't understand why you would take their dog above and beyond what a good decoy could read is too much.

Sam

Its not a case of run there dog. 

your right i should have worded it differently now that i re-read it. but when you take them off the field and you start seeing how the dog handles the different scenarios and pressure levels outside his comfort zone you see the flaws quickly and adjust. You see that the dog confidence level isnt there or any other flaw that lessons the dogs commitment too the bite. Then build on it just as any respected trainer would. Then explain to handler whats goin on and where the appropriate starting point is for the level of there team.

Noone is running dogs in training!

simply was implying that there dogs arent ready for any situation at any time and need continued training. 

does that clear make a little sense?


 

Yeah. When I read your earlier post it didn't sound good. It almost read like someone was trying to prove a point at the dog's expense. That's why I asked. Internet training can get confusing and misunderstood!

yeah and a beer a two to boot doesnt help. it was a long day of training haha. 12 dogs today for obedience and 2 tracking.

BLAHHHH

Yoshy,
I had typed a response the other night then closed the page by accident and it was lost.  When I came back, I figured I'd just let it go and watch how it unraveled.  Good posts, BTW.

I will add that if you don't test the dog how will you ever know if it is a good protection dog? 

I've decoyed for a little while now and have seen some really good, very intense dogs on sleeves, suits and hidden sleeves fall apart when pressured with out equipment, especially when the decoy is in the dog's face and not backing down.  When I decoy for our K9's I will often get close enough to touch an ear or the dog's nose while pushing it really hard in defense.  When you do this you will get and idea of which dogs won't bite, will bite or are reluctant to bite.  When you invade a dog's personal space and touch it's ear or face that is already, barking, snarling and snapping you get a very distinct reaction.  The reaction that I want is serious aggression and an increase in aggression.  However, this is still training and doesn't really answer the question for certain. 

The dog must be tested and the testing must be designed to stress the dog in various environments.  It also must be very real, serious and the decoy must portray the demeanor of a person really intent on harming the handler and dog.  Some decoys just can't do this very well.  It's not about yelling and banging things, it is the persona and must be believable.   


JMO FWIW, 

Jim

HAHA jim. dont ya hate it when that happens.