Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 9

Here's the link to the perp's gun if interested. My favorite part of working the police dog was the scent work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v3t94hz1rro58z7/armedrobber3.JPG?dl=0

 

 

emoryg! You have a gift for writing! That was a pleasure to read and I would think a book authored by you would make a best seller list!

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

Apple: I can see the leg tucking as instinctual and a survival mechanism, but some dogs also use their legs to fight and possess the man, such as wrapping their legs around the person to an extent. This can be imprinted at an early age in pups that display the behavior by reinforcing the pup to wrap his feet around a prey object. I think it is more common in dogs with very high prey drive and is part of possessing the prey, which could also be a survival mechanism.

What you are describing is not a true fight for survival....it is more of a sparing contest.

Hans: of course I am not saying that. An untrained dog can be civil.

that's why i said earlier - prey have not much to do with civility. dog, killing the prey, don't really feel anger/fury against it. if prey put too much resistance, or too strong for dog, dog just let it go.
but i cannot imagine of dog, who confront an opponent without anger. in such circumstances there only two options - run or fight to win or die.
people, who put emphasis on prey for defense, shouldn't be surprised, if their dogs fail when facing not an imitated but real tough resistance. the nowadays model of training, be it sport or LE/PP, seems for most part based on transition of dog from prey to play.
if after such prep. dog has success on street, that's only because dog not yet bumped into advanced opponent.

Koots
Only a few agencies will use a breeding program - the RCMP is one of those.

i know, been there. they have certain days open to public.
wasn't impressed. i acknowledge the show directed for general public but still,  same as everywhere, obvious obsesion by prey.

apple
Dogs should be trained on a competition suit so they can feel the muscle movement of the decoy and get more of a sense that the suit is an extension of the decoy and not a large sleeve/toy.

maybe you right. but i never seen suit as a problem for bite work. we did use very thick clumsy suits but i do not ever noticed any impact it has for dog's state of mind when it comes to fight. contrary, lots of dogs turned out too smart and tried to reach weak points like face, hands. but on another hand dogs itself wasn't been bred for sport/active life style purpose in mind.

emoryg
Here is a link to a video of Andor playing the game.

how old that dog in video?

What difference does it make why dogs have consistent success on the streets?? I mean in almost have a century I have not seen a man with dog sleeve rob bank or attack others or in crowds of crowd control.....and if someone can give example it would be less than 1% in contrast to all times dogs were successful on streets. Never heard of handlers worrying about whether to use prey or defense drives once things escalated, most of this is armchair sophistry! I have worked a dog on the streets, and seen many more worked with bites, if the dog is trained a high percent of time they execute what the handler wants....there are a few exceptions, but that is case in any aspect of life. Bottom line is the way dogs are trained today is working in vast majority of cases, and the exceptions don’t justify the change of things over the majority of success. After all, there are negative aspects to any foundation work and you have to consider type dogs available, amount of dogs available, and the amount of time it takes to train a dog to be street ready. Sometimes the mode of training is not compatible with some of these elements and would reduce available dogs. Those of us who know how to train LE dogs know these elements are important and some dogs don’t make it because we can’t take one year to build a dog in a certain way. When all things are considered, the people who specialize in training these dogs have the right balance for this time and dog available.

Valk,
Dogs definitely can be civil in prey only. Usually more common in Mals/DS's. Non classical prey drive. The dog see the man as prey, which is unusual because most dogs don't see people as prey, but a few do. Even if they don't some have such intense prey drive they will bite for real in prey.

Juno, I am glad you enjoyed the video.  He may have not been the best dog I worked with, but he was just as fun!

Joanro, as my kids grew up they made me tell the stories so much I know them by heart.  Most kids grow up having bedtime stories read to them.  Mine wanted to hear police dog tales.  Thanks for your kind words!  I have hundreds of them and will probably be banned from the site soon.lol

Valk, Andor would have been 3 years or older.  He was born in May 2002, I started working with him in 05.  Maybe around the spring?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=386121-andor-vom-hause-veronese

Emoryg, rest assured you won't be banned for posting your stories, think everyone enjoys them

Emoryg-
As I was reading your accounts, I, just like Joan, was thinking, man...this is a wild ride read! What an excellent storyteller you are.
You should write a book.
You take us along while reading and in our minds its like watching a movie!
Good boy Andor! Just as vocal as some of mine were.

The leg tucking thing...protecting limbs is probably one thing... I have often seen this on one of my females too. She was light in weight and smaller - and when fighting with a larger oponenent she would drop and tuck her feet/legs too when holding a bite.
I always assumed she did it to center her weight. Lower the center of gravity and ball all her weight into one low place on the ground....so that she actually seemed to weigh more than she actually did. Turned herself into pure Dead Weight and preserved her stamina. It was her way of winning the battle.

I don't post on this forum,but I wanted to say thanks to Emory for the stories and also the info.Also thanks to Cliff (long time from Jacques old forum!) for your last post,exactly what I was thinking.
Having handled 2 police dogs and now playing IPO with my dog while enjoying retirement,I also never cease to be amazed at the comments from the armchair warriors.But that I think is the guts of internet forums.As long as we take what is good and leave the BS,sometimes a good thread such as this one comes along.

Mike Di Rago