Feeding - Page 3

Hallo Again Sunshine, I'm not a vet, you know! I can only tell of my approach: I don't differentiate between cooked or uncooked, and I worry about all the items you mentioned. I learned of it when I started, and really haven't done any research since. It's a simple fact, Sunny, your vet will know. I'm sure a bit of fat here or there isn't going to make slightest difference. I mean, even the bones I give will have bit of fat left on them. It's only a real problem if you feed bones or meats with material amounts of fats. You feed large hunk of turkey with abundant fat attached, animal is liable to spew it up anyhow! But, it's not unknown for dogs to die from it! ( and often, with this scenario, owner doesn't even know why!) Keep smiling.

Do you feed with the bowl on the ground or up high so they are eating with their head up? just a question

Patrishap, it must just be raw fat, because our dogs get chicken or turkey leftovers regularly. We eat a lot of rotisserie chicken, lol. Also, we have used bacon grease (the drippings). They all love it and nobody has ever had a bad reaction. I am ashamed to admit, and I always tell my puppy owners not to do it, but our guys get table leftovers, if not too spicy. I never share my Mexican food with them. And you know what? I am back to square one. Pineridge thinks the food should be soaked, my vet does, too (and he is a longtime breeder - just the wrong breed, Briards). We will definitely continue to soak the Iams food, because it expands a lot. Eukanuba and Royal Canine does not too bad. Thank you everybody for your input and opinions. Oh, to answer your question Robin, I never raise the food bowl off the ground, but not because of bloat. I just think it is nonsense. We have raised our water bowls off the ground, but for a different reason: My guys like to play with it, and metal buckets can make a lot of noise, you can hear that almost half a mile away (on concrete). To put a stop to that, we attach it on a hook to the fence. Chris

I used to buy cheap meat cutouts at the butcher for my dog, and sometimes there was a lot of fat in them. (Sometimes just large pieces of fat, beef fat). I fed it raw or cooked with oats. My dog has never complained! Didn't have any reactions or any problems with that. And some of my friends did it with no negative consequences. May be some dogs have allergic reaction? BTW, my vet told me to never feed raw, because the dogs, she said evolved to eat kibble, and their stomachs will not react well to any raw meat : )

hi all --about nutrition -- my ring sport friends feed their sport dogs raw chicken necks by the pounds --- they swear by it -- as for me ... well i pass on that .. but they say it is absoultely wonderful; .. the calcium from the soft bones .. the chicken fat and the protein from the meat !! there was a great point about evolution and our dogs -- many people talk about dog nutrition along the lines of nature and how and what wild canines eat ... that is a very very big mistake !! yes evolution .. more our genetic manipulation has drastically changed the physiology and digetsive tracts of the canine / dog -- they are not wild animals and although some things like chewing marrow bones helps their teeth they are genetically different .. this we must consider in feeding our dogs in regards to nutrition , food brands , [ not just whether dogs get proeins and fats but how it is presented within the formualtion that makes it usefuul to the dogs] .. you might want to try rew chicken .. but make sure it is right from the butcher andsterile .. dogs can get salmonella poisoning too as well as other GI infections .--

Hi Silbersee, I'm only surprised some vet hasn't posted in already to tell me what a complete idiot I am! It's a vet and other expert dog people who told me in first place, and I've never researched it - assumed it was simply common knowledge. I mentioned chappy above with dog that died, and we spoke subsequenly: his vet had later confirmed to him exactly what I've said! As to whether raw or cooked fat: I've never really checked it out - I just don't want to take chances here. I can make one point here (and others will probably say I'm an idiot again!): when I offer a bone with plenty of raw chunky fat attached, my animals tend to be very wary of it - almost as if they know! (By the way, I just realised I made horrible mistake! The business with mentioned chappy's dog had to do with smoked leg ham leftovers, not turkey - please forgive me! Still, general principles are unchanged.) So, if you feed raw fat, animal may well turn up nose, but feed stuff that has been made nice and tasty by cooking (or smoking?), and they may well gorge themselves on it! The notion of feeding bacon or fat drippings is really a bit too unreal for me to be happy with! Quite apart from what I've said, imagine what it could be doing to their arteries! No Silbersee, that's not for me! It's also a question of energy in and energy out! You take a constantly physically hard-working dog, horse or even a human (ever seen a farmer in Northern Europe chuck half a pound of butter into the pot - every day?), and you can probably feed very rich energy foods and get away with it, in fact they probably need it, but a dog that's now only partly active? As far as soaking food is concerned, I'm very open-minded. I've already said how they use this method in the feedlot industry as matter of course. It gives more value for the buck! In other words, when using expensive feed, they want to make sure animal gets maximum benefit therefrom, and not have it pass through gut parly undigested. I'm just doubtful that allowing food to first expand outside stomach actually eliminates problem of bloat. I know for fact that it hasn't eased problem of bloat in other animal industries. I also like to see them use their teeth. I'm happy to similarly accept that soaking dry food improves the nutritional uptake in a dog - I'd say it must, but whether really necessary, I'd need some convincing! (We're not looking at fattening an animal at minimal cost here!). I never soak and mine are very active and look very healthy compared to others I've seen! I believe in simplicity Silbersee! DH mentioned somewhere how she aids vets by somewhat educating them! Well I've experienced so many totally conflicting expert opinions from that quarter (and some that even fail the simple test of prima facie logic), that I too have made a few attempts there. I wasn't trying to force absolutes down peoples' throats, merely saying what works for me! As I said, I thought business about fat and dogs was pretty well universally accepted. Phew! You're making me work here, Silbersee! Regards.

Cheers Alpha, Evoluton bit was only raised by me to explain to Sunny one little point about 'accident of evolution' in order to clarify one tiny aspect of what's with us right now! Regards.

Hi Patrishap, now I think I was misunderstood. I don't just feed my guys a whole pot of bacon drippings. No, they each get a spoon full in their food. It melts in water and just gives them a taste. I can see what you mean that animals can't take it if they eat that in quantity. Who could? You would need a by-pass immediately following consumption. But it is true what Sunny says. You should see their coats. Fat (animal or plant) is really good for that. Also, in the winter we add a teaspoon of a good quality vegetable oil to their daily food. Bacon drippings is an exception and rare, since we don't eat bacon ourselves. My husband is a cop and they fix that at work sometimes in their late graveyardshifts. So, he brings these drippings home. Also, my husband adds carrots once or twice a week. That is a constant argument between us because I swear they don't utilize it since I can find whole carrot pieces in their stools. My hubby takes pride in his preparation of dog food, so I leave him be. But our dogs usually have beautiful full and glossy coats, that other people have complimented us on. So, he must be doing something right. Now, raw food makes me shudder. I worry about salmonella and E-coli. Dogs can die from that. The only thing raw I used to feed years ago was raw fresh and chopped beef liver to my pregnant and lactating girls, but I stopped doing that, too. Cheers to Downunder, Chris

Hi Silbersee, Got you Silbersee - nothing wrong with that! I misunderstood: had image of dogs slobbering heaps of it at once! Know about carrot left-overs - must say I've never worried about it. When I was kid - don't ask how many ages ago! - we had Shepherds (not in serious pedigree way), and I remember my mother always pouring bit of cooked meat-mince water over all kinds of food for same reason. I feel terrible where Sunny is concerned: I remember her saying she fed left-over turkey at Thanks Giving, and here's me going on repeatedly about it, when I meant other solid fats altogether! Turkey is probably a pretty nice lean meat product. It's only when you questioned about cooked/uncooked that penny dropped! I'm pretty sure about that mistake of evolution where excess animal fat is concerned, and it's got nothing to do with allergic reactions mentioned by someone above - and I'm not talking about a bit of fat left on piece of raw meat. I'm talking about chunks of Christmas ham left-overs and the like with thick layer of crust and underlying fat. Memories as a kid makes me bring up something else, and you may well hate me for it! I've said how a Shepherd may well happily live on water with honey for a while! (I'm only exaggerating to make a point!); and, how as a kid the dogs used to thrive on all kinds of food - in fact they were never fed any of the modern formulations of extruded dry foods! What's my point? And I will have half the Board down on me in order to skin me alive for this one! Well, it amuses me the way post after post will inquire as to the latest and best extruded formulations available! Should we buy this, or should we buy that? I suspect they're all victims of the power of advertising! I've even had expert dog people ask me what brand I use! I barely look at what brand I buy! If it's by one of the well-known companies, I grab a huge bag and that will do me! (Come to think of it, do the manufacturers recommend soaking?) Just to finish up: Beef liver is a bit of a hobby horse with me. I reckon it's chockerblock of good ingredients. Not raw: just boiled for couple of minutes, cut up and added to other food. If you're looking for treats for training that they'll go for day after day, try it! Nice and lean too! Regards as always. Sorry Sunny. I'm an idiot!

Hey Peter, I don't know why you wrote that you are an idiot. This was a real normal fact finding mission. If the dogs get something special put with their foods it is always mixed with their kibble and quite modest. The last thing I need in my busy life are 2 large shepherds with the runs. . . Chris does really have the nicest coats on her dogs in our area and I wish I knew her secret. Gorgeous coats. My mother shakes her head when she sees all the thought I put into feeding my two. She will remind me of the dogs we grew up with that always got something from the table or she would cook oats and throw in a raw egg. They would get the dog food on special that week. And these dogs never had to go to the vet besides their annual check-up. They were dachshunds and always at ideal weight, which is really a feat when you come to think of it. She has a point. If I was killing my dogs softly, I would want to know about it. Cheers to you! Sunny