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by Keith Grossman on 23 July 2010 - 02:07
"Of course the dogs have no say in the matter, and are innocent victims - but the humans should know better."
Correct, the dogs have no say in the matter; they didn't ask to be born and they didn't ask to be abandoned when they became too much of a hassle. All any of the dogs ever wanted was for someone...anyone...to be 1/100th as loyal to them as they are willing to be to their keepers.
"Did you know that their is a trend toward total disregard of ALL breed characteristics in shelter dogs, calling them 'American Shetler Dogs' and doing everything possible to NOT educate prospective adopters about the dog's genetic background? Yup."
And why not? You know as well as I do how inept most people working in shelters are at correctly identifying dogs. Case in point; meet Samson, listed on the shelter's roster as a Saint Bernard mix and a constant source of conflict because they couldn't quite figure out why always acted out...atypical for a Saint Bernard. I know it's hard to tell from just a head shot but Samson wasn't a Saint Bernard mix at all...he was an Anatolian Shepherd...completely different dog with a completely different attitude...total prick but I enjoyed the hell out of working with him because he wanted and needed to work. Every huge, wet mouthed, predominately white dog got labeled as a Saint Bernard. Samson lived out his life with a shelter volunteer who I taught how to manage him. He got to just be a dog.
"Keith, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one buddy. I hope that doesn't mean that we can't respect each other's opinions."
Nor do I, Diane. I might not like what you have to say much of the time but I will defend your right to the death to say it. I have tried through this exchange to avoid being disrespectful; I hope my comments did not appear otherwise. All I ask from you is to have the integrity to state publicly what your beliefs and practices are and let the chips fall where they may. Do that and you will have earned my respect albeit not my agreement; fail that or candy-coat it and you can expect me to call you out on it. I think that's fair; you?
Correct, the dogs have no say in the matter; they didn't ask to be born and they didn't ask to be abandoned when they became too much of a hassle. All any of the dogs ever wanted was for someone...anyone...to be 1/100th as loyal to them as they are willing to be to their keepers.
"Did you know that their is a trend toward total disregard of ALL breed characteristics in shelter dogs, calling them 'American Shetler Dogs' and doing everything possible to NOT educate prospective adopters about the dog's genetic background? Yup."
And why not? You know as well as I do how inept most people working in shelters are at correctly identifying dogs. Case in point; meet Samson, listed on the shelter's roster as a Saint Bernard mix and a constant source of conflict because they couldn't quite figure out why always acted out...atypical for a Saint Bernard. I know it's hard to tell from just a head shot but Samson wasn't a Saint Bernard mix at all...he was an Anatolian Shepherd...completely different dog with a completely different attitude...total prick but I enjoyed the hell out of working with him because he wanted and needed to work. Every huge, wet mouthed, predominately white dog got labeled as a Saint Bernard. Samson lived out his life with a shelter volunteer who I taught how to manage him. He got to just be a dog.
"Keith, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one buddy. I hope that doesn't mean that we can't respect each other's opinions."
Nor do I, Diane. I might not like what you have to say much of the time but I will defend your right to the death to say it. I have tried through this exchange to avoid being disrespectful; I hope my comments did not appear otherwise. All I ask from you is to have the integrity to state publicly what your beliefs and practices are and let the chips fall where they may. Do that and you will have earned my respect albeit not my agreement; fail that or candy-coat it and you can expect me to call you out on it. I think that's fair; you?
by crimsonribbon on 23 July 2010 - 02:07
Hi Diane,
I read your "Dog Who Spoke with Gods" book a couple years ago. I really liked it, although it did totally make me cry. I didn't expect a happy ending, but that was definitely not the ending I expected. It's obvious from reading the book that you feel really strongly about several issues when it comes to keeping/training dogs. Namely the chaining of dogs and using ecollars for training. It seems obvious from reading your book that you strongly dissaprove of the use of ecollars. Do you feel there is any method of using them that is acceptable?
I thought it was nice that the book was written from the perspective of an ordinary girl- well, I guess not average since she was pre-med and the daughter of a well known doctor- but not an animal-rights person or even a pet owner. It did get a bit hard to believe after the dog started talking though. My friend also read the book and imagined the dog's voice as a sort of throaty yodel. We had quite a bit of fun trying to imitate what he might have sounded like.
One scene from the book really haunts me and that was the experiment with "learned helplessness". Reading the description of animals pacing, flank-sucking, and receiving random electric shocks was really disturbing. I could almost feel the chaotic, panicked atmosphere. I don't know how anyone could conceive of an experiment like that and carry it out and still be able to sleep at night. It gives me nightmares just reading about it.
Do you really think a Pit Bull could survive in a feral state in the woods in Washington?
I read your "Dog Who Spoke with Gods" book a couple years ago. I really liked it, although it did totally make me cry. I didn't expect a happy ending, but that was definitely not the ending I expected. It's obvious from reading the book that you feel really strongly about several issues when it comes to keeping/training dogs. Namely the chaining of dogs and using ecollars for training. It seems obvious from reading your book that you strongly dissaprove of the use of ecollars. Do you feel there is any method of using them that is acceptable?
I thought it was nice that the book was written from the perspective of an ordinary girl- well, I guess not average since she was pre-med and the daughter of a well known doctor- but not an animal-rights person or even a pet owner. It did get a bit hard to believe after the dog started talking though. My friend also read the book and imagined the dog's voice as a sort of throaty yodel. We had quite a bit of fun trying to imitate what he might have sounded like.
One scene from the book really haunts me and that was the experiment with "learned helplessness". Reading the description of animals pacing, flank-sucking, and receiving random electric shocks was really disturbing. I could almost feel the chaotic, panicked atmosphere. I don't know how anyone could conceive of an experiment like that and carry it out and still be able to sleep at night. It gives me nightmares just reading about it.
Do you really think a Pit Bull could survive in a feral state in the woods in Washington?
by NoCurs on 23 July 2010 - 04:07
Hi "CrimsonRibbon".
Well, as to your question about a young pit bull living feral in the woods of Western Wa, I don't know. The weather is not really a problem, but the lack of food would be. I took literary license by having a dead deer carcass around when the dog was young, and letting him have some luck at digging out voles. To be honest, most of the dogs we got into animal control that had been dumped in Capitol forest were darn thin. THe other thing I saw a lot, with the reservation dogs, is how many got demodex and were dying from that. Hey, when you have a dog talking - I guess you can have him survive for a few months out in the woods! : )
Keith, if that is an Anatolian, wow, it is VERY untypical. Certainly not a wellbred purebred. However, your point is certainly well taken... almost nobody can get breeds wrong more than the average animal control officer/rescuer!!!! Lord, just look at PetFinder! It is THE largest collection of misidentified dogs there is. That is why I like to talk about "types" of dogs. A "type" is much easier to hit than a particular breed. And I am curious, just how does a "st bernard act"? I'm old enough to remember when Saints were one of the most frequent killers of children, and there was a article in JAMA calling for banning the breed! I worked at a st breeding kennel for a while, and we were told to "take cover" if certain of the dogs got out!
As to "doggylover" (who I hear is a less than savory person who changes their "handle" a lot) you are pretty funny my friend. I like your comment about my "making money off the dogs I got from the HSUS". Uhm, really. I guess that would be the money I "got" when I had to pay to have them euthanised? You're high my friend. And name the "lawdog" that was taken from the children? You're honestly killing me here!!! A *BRAND NEW* "Diane Tale!" I l ike the new ones I haven't heard before!!! Are you talking about K9 Neville, pictured with his foster home's kids? The ones so proud to see him given the chance? He came from a shelter in Ontario where he was slated to be euthanized due to BSL. ANyway, you're funny, keep it up! But I do have a question for you: can you tell us all proudly your name and what you have done for the breed?
Yeah, I thought not. Now run along home, kid, and let the "big people" talk.
Well, as to your question about a young pit bull living feral in the woods of Western Wa, I don't know. The weather is not really a problem, but the lack of food would be. I took literary license by having a dead deer carcass around when the dog was young, and letting him have some luck at digging out voles. To be honest, most of the dogs we got into animal control that had been dumped in Capitol forest were darn thin. THe other thing I saw a lot, with the reservation dogs, is how many got demodex and were dying from that. Hey, when you have a dog talking - I guess you can have him survive for a few months out in the woods! : )
Keith, if that is an Anatolian, wow, it is VERY untypical. Certainly not a wellbred purebred. However, your point is certainly well taken... almost nobody can get breeds wrong more than the average animal control officer/rescuer!!!! Lord, just look at PetFinder! It is THE largest collection of misidentified dogs there is. That is why I like to talk about "types" of dogs. A "type" is much easier to hit than a particular breed. And I am curious, just how does a "st bernard act"? I'm old enough to remember when Saints were one of the most frequent killers of children, and there was a article in JAMA calling for banning the breed! I worked at a st breeding kennel for a while, and we were told to "take cover" if certain of the dogs got out!
As to "doggylover" (who I hear is a less than savory person who changes their "handle" a lot) you are pretty funny my friend. I like your comment about my "making money off the dogs I got from the HSUS". Uhm, really. I guess that would be the money I "got" when I had to pay to have them euthanised? You're high my friend. And name the "lawdog" that was taken from the children? You're honestly killing me here!!! A *BRAND NEW* "Diane Tale!" I l ike the new ones I haven't heard before!!! Are you talking about K9 Neville, pictured with his foster home's kids? The ones so proud to see him given the chance? He came from a shelter in Ontario where he was slated to be euthanized due to BSL. ANyway, you're funny, keep it up! But I do have a question for you: can you tell us all proudly your name and what you have done for the breed?
Yeah, I thought not. Now run along home, kid, and let the "big people" talk.
by Two Moons on 23 July 2010 - 05:07
Thats just sad.
by Jenni78 on 23 July 2010 - 17:07
The dog Keith pictures is not that atypical of an Anatolian bred for work and not show...something rarely seen but I have no doubt would end up in a shelter if Joe Schmo got a hold of one.
Most people wouldn't recognize a real Tibetan Mastiff either.
Most people wouldn't recognize a real Tibetan Mastiff either.
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