Cow hocks how to tell true or acquired? - Page 2

I have had 2 puppies in the past year who were very cown hocked at 4 months of age. One of them, with appropriate exercise, grew out of it completely by one year of age. The other is 10 months now and has improved significantly, but I'm not sure she'll grow out of it completely. I doubt it. Both puppies have done extremely well in the show ring and both are otherwise excellent. I think proper exercise is imporant for cow-hocked puppies, ie, free and rowdy exercise like puppies naturally do when in a large exercise pen with other puppies, is very important for their physical development. It is not necessary for them to be with other puppies, but an owner can be the "other puppy", but they must be encouraged to play and jump around freely to get a natural physical development.

Redcap, I agree. I feel I must add to an earlier comment I made when refering to road work. There is a tendancy, I feel, that in rush to get pups ready for ring some do far too much early training of their pups, especially those who insist on training them to PULL against the lead. Whilst pups bones, ligaments and muscles are still in their infancy the position of the hocks can vary according to growth and looseness. IMO to put extra strain, by teaching to pull, those which are slightly Cow hocked can possibly increase tightness & thereby tension on tendons already acting to pull back feet outwards and hock inwards. This is all apart from preventing pup learning how to use correct forward reach. All looks good in the ring until animal asked to gait on loose lead, suddenly dog then displays just how much he has never been allowed to learn about free movement. Regards Sue B

Olddog, Yesterday you asked me the following question;- "..how widespread problem of cow-hocked state really is and, at what degree you start to take serious note thereof where Showing and any breeding is concerned." Obviously I can only speak of what I see hear in the Uk. In my opinion from the animals I see around the rings at this present time Cow Hocked is not a widespread problem, though looseness, causing what we describe as 'unsoundness' is increasing. Whereas there is no measurement for a dog which is cow hocked, i.e it either is or it is not, unsoundness on the other hand can be measured in degree's. Terminology when judging is very important but as not all judges use the same terminology to describe what they see it can also be very confusing. For example if I was to say 'The upper arm sould be slightly longer', I mean this to be quite different from saying, 'The upper arm is short'. A centimetre could be all I am talking about but a centimetre can make all the difference. One centimetre more than what I see and it could be the correct length, one centimetre less and it would be short. I could go on with other things but that would be to disrupt this thread. To go back to the thread, saying, 'Hocks could be sounder' or 'moves close behind', shows I have noted fact that dog is not 'completely sound' but is a term describing a fault of lesser degree than that of 'unsound behind' 'Toes in'/'out' or even 'Throws hock'. All of the latter I consider to be more serious than the former and at same time expect action of latter would also effect overall movement or appearance of dog on the move. Lack of drive for one, rolling from side to side or even inability to co-ordinate steps at fast gait. Not sure if any of this is answering your question but then of course this is just my opinion, others will inevitably differ and that is their perogative and it is not for me to say they are wrong, just that we differ. We all have use our own judgement in a way we believe to be fair and honest. As for breeding. I am happy to say I do not and have never had an unsoundness problem in my stock. I say it now with fingers & toes tightly crossed. I would never use a dog that was Cow Hocked, I have used a very unsound dog. It was one of the German Imports I mentioned yesterday. Had he not been unsound I would have used him asap, as it was I waited over 2yrs to use him and until I had seen sufficient progeny in the ring to assess the hereditory prepotency of his condition. Pleased to say early indication of some hockiness in young some young progeny of 4mths, had vastly improved by reaching 6-7mths of age and totally dissapeared by 10-11mths. And some of these were from dams whose own hocks could be firmer. I used dog, litter of 9, all sound from early age. Five of 9 were hip scored lowest of these was 0:2, and highest 5:5. My current show male is three generation decendant of that mating and soundness has remained within each generation. Still not sure if answered your question, but can only answere what I would and have done and not what others would or could do. Best Regards Sue B

Thanks for above reply, Sue, It reflects your usual expert thoroughness. Just one thing though. In judges' summations, you often find subjective terms like 'slightly cow-hocked' etc. With animal standing still, what criteria would you go by in deciding what degree of bend, crookedness or divergence from straight, represents badly, slightly or only vaguely cow-hocked? At what point do you say, no, not fit for breeding or, relegate animal straight to bottom of Ring ranking?

Good Question Olddog, Again one not so easy to give direct answer to. Sure you do not think up such questions, not for own benefit but rather for others whose knowledgable may not be as extensive as your own? As this is what I suspect! lol. Without the benefit of living animals infront of us to show you what I personally would consider a difference in the degree of Cow Hocked, I unfortunately find this too difficult to explain in the written word. Perhaps once again it can only be related to 'within the eye of the beholder'. Having said that Cow Hocked is still Cow Hocked and before I would ever consider using a dog which was even slightly Cow Hocked, I would need to not only to admire him for the rest of his excellent construction, I would need to see condition had no adverse effect on his movement (could be a way of simulating the degree), consider that his bloodline was also a desirable comodity and then would keep careful eye on hereditory condition of progeny, that's providing he has any of course, before considering using him myself. As it is (as always) just a matter of opinion, Again I am not sure my answer is of any use to you or indeed anybody else! Sue

Thanks Sue, You are very astute, of course. I do like to pose questions in such manner that they may be of a more universal use to others as well - in forum like this I presumptuously think we all should actually! You do at times over-rate my knowledge though - which I, as humble as I naturally am, may only accept with grace! as a compliment. Thanks again for your explanation.

Our 6 month old puppy is very cow hocked, and we have just started hydrotherapy with him, which he hates.

Our vet has told us no lead exercise, yet I keep reading that on the contrary, exercise is really important for cow hocked puppies!!!  Should this be off lead exercise?  Also, is there anything else that can help?

Missbeeb, he really is pretty bad.  His back feet are almost quarter to three and he has very poor muscle tone in his back hind quarters.

We really are trying to find out as much as possible about this problem.  There does however, seem very little information on the internet, such as treatments, causes etc.  My knowledge has been really from forums such as these.