Where did the US GSD go wrong? - Page 4

Roaching of the back for strength? How many on this list agree with that?

BTW, judging from his photos, Horand did not have a roachy topline.

Blitzen, Good German Shepherd Dog does not have a "roached" back, but has a top line more like a slight arc rather than a strait line. This arc acts like a spring when a dog moves. Imagine a steel bar that is straight. How easy is it to bend it by applying force to both ends? Very difficult. And now imagine the same bar but slightly bent so it forms an arc. It will bend much easier, with much less force applied. The same is true for a dog’s spine. When it is slightly arched, the dog spends much less energy on bending it when it runs, so it can run longer. How many Am. GSDs do you know that passed AD test? Horand was a prototype of a modern GSD. Who said that he was ideal? But what is for sure, he looks nothing like Am. GSD! Wildthing, there is a button on your key-board, its called "Caps Lock." You might want to try that.

Thanks Makosh Times I do forget about it. Now, you explained the back much better than I. I did not mean Roach, but exactly what your explaining, not a level meter back like Am. Bred Shepherds. It starts behind the neck and just tips a bit so the back works and is not stiff, this is why they can move so agile and well. Your good in explaining things like this for insistance and I appreciate the correction as I knew what I wanted to say and could not, so you did it well. Thanks for the cap lock, will try and watch that. Sorry if I affended anybody, I just type in my feelings and forget. Good Day.

I think the keyword here is "slight" I don't see photos of many with a "slight" arch, most look very pronounced to me. Is it the way the dogs are set up for the photos? How about siting some examples of living Va dogs that are pictured on this site that have that correct slight arch so I can see what you are talking about. In most breeds any "arch" is considered a fault except for a greyhound, whippet, or a few other coarsing breeds. Also, what does the SV standard have to say about the topline? Boy, I stand corrected about Horand, here I thought I was reading that everyone on this list agreed that Herr Captain's breeding philosophy was to always be followed and honored to the "T". No, Horand doesn't look like the current AM lines, don't think I ever said he did LOL. Actually, he looks a lot more like the imported working lines to me, but, here again, I'm probably way off track. I think you might need to be a little honest here and admit that the SV style has also changed to conform to the show ring. The stupid Americans don't have the patent on screwing up dogs you know. The original GSD's did not have arched/roached backs. The breeders have created that over the years by selective breeding. Are you all sure you're not justifying a fault that you can't seem to breed out? Just asking. BTW, I don't own Am lines, never have, never will. I've been to a number of Schutzhund trials and saw some pretty decent working GSD's and not one of them had a roach/arch. Flame away.....I can take it LOL.

I preffer the very "slight" arc. But sorry, it has not proven to be a stronger back or spine, and when too severe, it makes the dog look like a camel and I have been told is related to spine problems. By the way, the Camel's spine is not Bent like the hump you see. the hump is a fat reserve, and spine runs relatively strait. An Arc is good to support weight, but angulation is detrimental to that, but great for length of stride. Anyhow, I dont think the Shepherd is built to carry weight like a pack mule, horse or donkey, all of whom have strait or slight sway backs. None of the wild dogs and also none of the herding dog breeds flaunt an "Arc" (to be kind and not use the word roach) like the West German Show line. I'm sorry, but I think that the "arc" came after Captain Max.

: ) Wildthing, no need for apology. We all do typos when in passion of explaining. It's just that the text is harder to read when it is in upper case. Thanks for your appreciation.

OK, take a look at Max at http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/343.html He stands in a natural pose. Or look at Yasko at http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/36836.html I think that these dogs demonstrate SLIGHT arc. Now, some people think that if they press on their dog’s butt, the dog will look better, this is why there are so many pictures where dogs are sitting down half way. A topline forming an arc is not a fault that we can't breed out. It is desirable, and it says so in the standard. I will post here a quote from the standard where it says so when I get home. Modern GSD is not screwed; it is a trotting dog, and is built so according to the laws of mechanics and muscle anatomy. “None of the wild dogs and also none of the herding dog breeds flaunt an "Arc"? What about Hyenas? (sp?)

Ok, I am going to be Fair. LOOK, at these Hyenas. Which one is it that has an Arch you like? http://www.sacrs.org.za/ecm21/gallery/hyena-pups-01300839b.jpg http://www.buddycom.com/animal/mammal/hyena.jpg http://www.tourethio.com/graphics/picture/hyena.gif http://library.thinkquest.org/11922/african/hyena.jpg http://clouded.leopard.net/~alari/hyenas/thumbnails/mini-07.gif http://clouded.leopard.net/~alari/hyenas/thumbnails/mini-11.gif http://clouded.leopard.net/~alari/hyenas/pics/hyena-07.jpg Can't remember, but I am almost sure that The Book "The German Shepherd Dog in work and picture" warned against the "Hyena" type GSD, with tiny back legs, creating a sloping topline. Gosh, Can't remember the book that was in. Best Wishes, Jo-Ann

There is one standard for German Shepperds! Only one, and that's it. Nothing else.