Where did the US GSD go wrong? - Page 2

There are a few more different types out there: European, Working, AKC All Breed, AKC Specialty, White. And I think there are the Shilohs and King GSDs to top things off. It is my belief that the AKC Specialty and All Breed varieties that can be shown in the showring have been bred too close together and not selectively chosen for any working capability. Just on side-gait. I have an old tape from AKC on the GSD which proudly states that a bitch was mated to her litter brothers and this offspring became good producers in the American line. It made me want to turn the video off. How can you expect nerve strength from so much incest? Is there anyone thinking about the longevity of the dog? Those poor animals drop dead by six years of age. No one speaks of longevity. You go to the ring and watch the owners massage the ears of the dogs upward. And then you see all those "friendly" ears wagging back and forth like banners. Then, go over to the obedience ring and see who is showing. If a GSD, the dog is most likely spayed or neutered. These animals are not chosen as possible breeding possiblities. When a breeder selects for only one or two qualities, you loose something else. This is not to say that I have not run across some nice American line dogs that with the love, determination and dedication of their owners achieved AKC obedience titles and/or become Search and Rescue dogs. But they are the exception and most of these people will admit that had they known more about the breed earlier, they would have tried to get a German lines dog. And then, we face the other significant discussion, of the Working Lines dog and the European Conformation dog. These two sides depart just as much as the European vs. the American. But these two sides will immediately ban together against the AKC style. So, it is my opinion that the departure came because the dogs are just not tested in their working capability. Unfortunately, many of these poor animals die of genetic diseases before they are six years of age. And the breeders continue to propogate this poor genetic pool because their egos are stroked when they can call their friendly eared shepherd a champion.

Ok, the SV has a standard. This standard was created to achieve a certain goal. Other people have different standards and different goals. Why do you care what these other people do? How does it affect your ability to follow your standard in an attempt to achieve your goal? I think that those that state that there are effectively multiple lines (whether or not they like those lines) have a good perspective. Mike is an example. Those that fanatically and blindly follow a dogmatic approach to life (stating that there is one true way) still need to grow up a bit and broaden their understanding of the world. Charlie Ivory is an example. I suspect that most of the people here are competitive (snicker). Does it not make sense that if your standard is better (in some global way outside of your goals) then it will "win" in the end? Moreover, the juvenile "we must convert everyone to our one true way" is pointless. These people obviously don't care about your standard or the proceedures you use to try and achive your goal. At the end of the day the only thing that counts is what you can achieve, not how blind you are in following your faith. For what it's worth. I understand and strongly respect the method used by the SV. I do not however think that anyone who doesn't follow it should be converted or killed. Rather, they just can't add their work back into the approved lines. That was really the point in creating this whole program, wasn't it.

Why do I care??? You have to ask that? Because do to no fault but our selves we have taken a breed of dog and all but ruined it,How can so many people have so many ideas of what the standard is? because everybody that wants too just changes the standard as they see fit. How easy is it to win the game in anything if we change the rules as we go along Just take a look at the shit that is out ther.Maxislooking has the balls to ask why? because of people like You Tailess and Maxi.You honestly think we have Improved the breed in the last 5o years? If you do your a fool and perhaps your the one that is blind Nobody asked your to convert to anything,conform yes,is that to much to ask?The different bloodlines have NOTHING to do with what we are talking about,bloodlines don't mean shit if they don't meet the standardI don't know what is up with Mike, I checked his older post and the dogs he speaks of are good dogs one in gereral is Stormfront one of the better working dogs today, but could not win in a showring to save it's own life.I think this dog is as close to being perfect then any of the other crap floating around out there The problem with todays german shepherds is simple, you freakin people trying to turn a working dog into a pretty show ring dog.Thats it in a nutshell........ If it can't win in the ring,I'll just keep breeding changes into it till it does......Tailless, don't tell me how strongly you respect the method of the SV your full of shit

Charlie, in all sincerity, as passionate as you are about the standard, how do you intend to change things? The only way can be through the breed clubs, or am I mistaken? The AKC is the registering body in the US for pure bred dogs. How does one make changes? Is it not necessary to work from within? In a democratic country what do you do if you you want change?

Try a little reading, It does a body good http://www.ankc.aust.com/gsd.html http://www.germanshepherddog.com/regulations/breed_standard.htm http://www.dogstuff.info/sv_registry.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/2788/wgshow.htm and last but not least http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/germshep.cfm

Sunshine, in spite of all the bitching I do...I have no answer for you.But I do know that if you have one breed of dog and several different standards then we are apt to fail.do you understand what I'm trying to say? Hell even Maxislooking mentiond it in her post at the top of this page.I know using dogs with out and out faults is not something one should do yet many people do it any way.Coated shepherds,white shepherds,shepherds with light eyes,the panda shepherd, the shiloh shepherd,where do you think the above mentioned came from.Every single time something like this is allowed to reproduce it weakens an already dulted bloodline......Is this the way to correct the problem?I do what I can to stay in certian guidlines to help keep that from happening,if I should produce something out of the guidlines I will simply place it in a good home as a pet....But altered so it can not reproduce.Is what I am trying so say really that hard to understand?I'm not talking bloodlines,makes no matter to me if the dog is bred and born in the USA, Canada,Europe or Serbia, We should all go by the original standard set forth by the SV Nothing else should matter.Then and only then will we have a chance at breeding the sound ,stable,working Shepherds of yesteryear....

The reading post was not directed to you Sunshine, it was for all of us to look at.

Hey Charlie, I did take your post to heart and just now finished my homework. . .LOL I don't think any of us that have responded to this post are so far from one another in our love for our breed. I just would like to know how can the AKC be moved to accept the guidelines that v.Stephanitz laid down? Surely working within the organization to change the the standard would be a step forward. Or, it is up to the SV to have these dogs given a new breed name, such as the "American Shepherd". This almost appears to me to be the simplest way to go about this. . .

Ah, A spark...lol...... This is what I'm trying to say The AKC is a huge multi million dollar company.They want to change something they do it, no big deal.The AKC is a breed registery,nothing more nothing less.People who know little about dogs insist on have AKC paperwork........so surely their dog must be good.little do they know is all you have to do is send in the paperwork with the correct amount of money and your in.What you are seeing in the ring today is not the breed we all claim to love so much today.The SV laughs at us stupid Americans,we pay crazy fees to the AKC and we pay top dollar for their second choice dogs(do you really think they are going to send us there good stuff) so we can strutt around like proud peacocks saying "I have a German Import".....lol. they laugh at us all the way to the bank.The Sv does not care what we do here,they care what is done there. They still today have breed wardens go to check on litters born and to be sure the pups meet that silly old standard I speak of so much......The AKC is big,as long as they have a captive crowd, they will always be as strong as they are now.What wins in the ring over her is long lanky and thin,the true German Shepherd does not have a chance in the show ring so we Americans did a little bodywork on them over the years so they would win her in the US show rings.......... because they are winning here means nothing to me.I don't know,maybe I'm the screwed up one,I refuse to bend to the point that my dogs look tike that.Do I think there is a happy medium,yep, I sure do,can they place in the US show ring?That I really don't know.If we lose track of what the dog was first designed to dothen we all lose in the long run.Sad but I think true......Time shall tell,look what hes happened in the last 30 to 50 years...Go back and look what the dogs looked like then and what they look like now.You tell me,I am open to suggestions,just no willing to go backwards anymore then we have.

Yes sparking but the other thread from Preston responding to the same post is extremely interesting.