Where are they ? - Page 12

Remember what Einstein said, "doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is insane...

ML, you remember when einstein said that? you knew him?

in fact journalists and histrorians have been trying to verify that quote and attribite it to einstein for decades, so far they have been unable, more BS, erumour and unsubstaiated claims by ML?

here is a good article about it;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/insanity-definition_n_1159927.html

"The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over again and expecting different results," utters the know-it-all guy in the coffee shop offering free "therapy" to his visibly shaken friend. He had all the tell-tale signs of the recently heartbroken, and Mr. Fix-It's platitudes didn't seem to be helping. I resisted the urge to butt in with a resounding "no it's not! That's the definition of perseveration!" but felt that my humbly nerdy correction wouldn't contribute much to the bromantic mood of gingerbread lattes and "who needs women" banter. So instead, I'll tell whoever wants to listen, right here, right now. This is not the definition of insanity. It never has been, and it probably never will be.

The above quote has been mis-attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, and Mark Twain. In fact, none of these great minds were responsible for such a convincing, yet blatantly incorrect definition. The first time it actually appeared in print was in a 1981 Narcotics Anonymous text (page 11).

http://tymora42.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/who-said-the-definition-of-insanity-is-doing-the-same-thing-over-and-over-and-expecting-different-results/

I decided to look for primary sources with years and dates attributed to the article. There is no citation of Franklin or Twain actually writing this piece of wisdom or being recorded saying it in an interview. Franklin is cited in Wikiquotes without documentation and with serious debate about redacting it. In that same discussion one user claims to have found an article in an issue of the 1925 New Yorker verifying that it was, actually, an Einstein quote. I followed her link to Google Books to find not enough information to satisfy myself. The picture near the article did not look like it was from 1925, nor did the citation reveal any dates printed on the page. The image was too small to be zoomed into a legibly readable size and there were no links for further perusal. Finally, it seems through context to have been written by a fiction author offhandedly claiming that someone else, Einstein for instance, said it. Thankfully the comment and source was redacted as being unreliable.

Did this leave Rita Mae Brown’s novel, Sudden Death, as the only originator? No. Narcotics Anonymous also used the quote “Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results” in their Basic Text (otherwise known as the Red Book yet filed under the title Narcotics Anonymous: Approved Literature) published about the same time. I went to the Library of Congress to determine the actual date of publication for these texts. Brown’s Sudden Death was published by Bantam in 1983. It appears on pg 68. Narcotics Anonymous has a publication date stating 1982, however, a source profiling rare books states that the actual publication was March of 1983. To further shroud the origination in mystery there are claims (without documentation that I could find) that Brown used it in a 1981 interview before her book was published and that the quote was included in the original preview edition of the NA handbook in the same year and that it dates as far back as 1979 when NA began researching and putting together the manuscript.

Who knows? It could very well be just an ancient Chinese proverb. I would sincerely love any information you come across regarding this.

It sounds like such a 'common sense'  statement, too, until you think about it.  As you quote, it does not take

perseverance with an issue into account.  It completely contradicts "Try, try and try again, eventually  you'll

succeed", for example.

However - Mountain Lion is also completely wrong  (again) when he suggests that the atheist aim is to 'de-convert'

religious persons.  I for one am not asking anyone to give up their faith - I just ask them to think about their faith

for long enough to justify it.

Presumably folks posting do not in their everyday lives make outrageous & illogical statements about non-religious

matters, e.g. say about food or the weather, or a party they are about to attend, or about their dogs;  where they

are aware that what they might say would be indefensible in fact ?   So why do they feel able to do so when it comes

to 'defending' their Faith ?  Although they don't really defend their beliefs, they slide away around the subject and

rarely give straight or complete answers.  Or just refer one to the Bible, as if that solves and ends every question.  

And they wonder why I'd like to open the dialogue on here up to let non  Flat Young Earthers, and Born Agains have

a go ???

Hund said,

"However - Mountain Lion is also completely wrong  (again) when he suggests that the atheist aim is to 'de-convert'

religious persons.  I for one am not asking anyone to give up their faith - I just ask them to think about their faith

for long enough to justify it."

Are you the elected spokesperson for "ALL" Atheists? Have you been inside each and everyone of their brains? If you haven't then you have no idea what the others motives are, or what they believe. I believe you speak for a party of "one". So your first sentence doesn't really apply unless it says "completely wrong about me".

Even if it said that I wouldn't believe it.

It's always a treat when one of the miserables checks in:

May God have mercy on your soul...

ML   I no more speak for ALL atheists than you speak for all christians.

What  I DO know is that I have spoken with hundreds of atheists over the years,  and not one

of them has ever expressed a dream of persuading the religious of any denomination out of

their faith.  They have often said they thought they would like to see the churches have less

power in secular matters and less money at their disposal;  but they almost never even say

that they 'wish' people would give up their faith.  Contrary to the claims of the sort of garbage

press articles you and others have come up with to purport there is some kind of joint atheist

conspiracy.

Hund, Google Atheists lawsuits and read all 209,000 hits before you make any more dramatic, incongruous statements about Atheism.