What are some of God's characteristics? - Page 4

Ruger (and Shtal) - I take it from your replies to vk4 that your understanding is that your god cannot

be 'unjust' because he/she/it sets the standard for what is 'just' or 'unjust' and humans have no say in

that ?  So god can do / get away with anything, on that basis ?

 

Even when, to us, the action(s)  seem irrational, illogical, downright cruel ?

 

What exactly would the value of your position be, in terms of its value to A) god; and B) humans, do you

believe ?

@VK4

VK4 is vile, vicious, no respect for their fellow man, moral less, backbiting, tactless person. The vk4’s religion has NO foundation for 'right' 'wrong' 'good' 'bad' or values/morals so its not surprising.

Hundmutter wrote: Even when, to us, the action(s)  seem irrational, illogical, downright cruel ?

 

Let’s start with basics; morality is what brings the most happiness to the most people, it’s pretty common responds I would expect from atheists, we have to be concern happiness of others. But listen closely in evolutionary universe, why should I be concern about happiness of others? If it just “re-arranged chemicals” why should I be concern about your happiness?

Happiness is just chemical reaction in the brain in evolutionist worldview, so why should I try achieving that particular chemical reaction and not another, let say I bring suffering to you, maybe what’s good bring the most suffering to the most people; this is totally arbitrary and totally impractical, how can you possible measure this? And how do you know what’s bring the most happiness to the most people. Maybe for instance like the moral code which is simply electrical impulses in the brain, but if it just a section of your brain and if it just electrical impulses in the brain then why should I follow it? I have other impulses in the brain too that I don’t follow, I don’t follow all of my impulses and that is probably a good thing. Sometimes I may incline to do things that maybe not good. This would not be morality if it is just impulses in the brain, it is not universal laws and my brain is different than yours anyway, I have different impulses, and so what’s good for me would be different what’s good for you. You can’t have objective morality that way. You see laws of morality are conventions adopted for the benefit of society, there is something we all agree to them and so you know we need these laws to maintain society, why? That is arbitrary, well because without that we have disorder, so? It is evolutionary universe what you believe right? But we need these laws benefit from acting what? Like animals / VK4?

And my point is how you decide “right from wrong? Because apart from the Biblical God, morality can only be relative; but people cannot live that way. People know in there heart of hearts morality is not relative…Atheists would say oh come-on everybody knows right from wrong. To which I will say, yeah that’s because God has revealed himself to all human beings and so in our consciousness we know right from wrong but my point is in evolutionary world view why would there be such a thing right and wrong and how can you possibly know about it?

I said this before Adolf Hitler thought it would be benefit to his society to kill Jews but I wouldn’t think that any of us on this forum would say that is really good, you couldn’t say that society is evil if this was definition of morality…because every society would have different moral code, so they are not laws if there are just conventions.

I'm glad you brought that up Ruger, because it's the mother lode:  original sin!

I will let Ruger1 explain how sin separate man from God.

So, you can't explain that injustice, so you'll leave it to Ruger.  The more pertinent question is, why does it have to be explained at all?

Travels  Vk4 

 

Please read Rev. Chapter 21, and then tell me how unjust God really is.

 

Both of you's  show me where it states that God destroyed Sodom  solely because of homosexiality.

 

I will discuss one thing at a time when I;m feeling well and up to it.

 

  John

vk4, so it is not based on other people opinion....thank you for answering, because thats all i asked... :) 

Hund, your post above is an exact description of what I believe. I am not sure I understand what your question is at the end though .. Please clarify what you are asking me ,,,,

Travels, yes " original sin" is the "mother load" ,,,, it is not only hated by nonbelievers, but likely will seperate me from 85% of believers too,,, Without a complete understanding of humankinds complete depravity and Gods holiness one could never accept God as just. Therefore, I totally understand where Vk and others are coming from with their feelings about God being a tyrant ...

Sin seperates humankind from God because God is perfectly holy and we are completely depraved ( yes from birth )...justice demands our depravity be punished. Instead God provided atonment in the person of Christ...:)))