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by zdog on 02 June 2010 - 19:06
don't sweat the leave it command. My dogs know what it means, lots of people's know what they mean. It's just what I used, I've never been to a pet store ob class before either.
Phil should know, lots of ring people use leave it, in fact they use it to cue their dog for the food refusal before they walk away in the begining levels. Some use other words, and some use leave it. It's not a big deal.
my dogs don't have problems with cat shit, and we have cats, they don't have problems with goose poop, and we live by a river that has geese year round and we walk by a golf course that has geese on their ponds. I don't have problems with food laying on the ground, or anything else. Just leave it, and walk along. It took all of about 2 seconds to teach.
unlike most things where I set up for success, Leave it is set up for the dog to fail. Put something tempting out, tell them to leave it, they don't, and bam, big correction from a long line, and lots of food, toys praise from me. I've never had a dog not learn it with no more than one or two repetitions.
if your dog has not learned the "leave it" and you still use it, and it's not very solid, then by all means, change it. it will be better for you and the dog's understanding of what is expected.
Phil should know, lots of ring people use leave it, in fact they use it to cue their dog for the food refusal before they walk away in the begining levels. Some use other words, and some use leave it. It's not a big deal.
my dogs don't have problems with cat shit, and we have cats, they don't have problems with goose poop, and we live by a river that has geese year round and we walk by a golf course that has geese on their ponds. I don't have problems with food laying on the ground, or anything else. Just leave it, and walk along. It took all of about 2 seconds to teach.
unlike most things where I set up for success, Leave it is set up for the dog to fail. Put something tempting out, tell them to leave it, they don't, and bam, big correction from a long line, and lots of food, toys praise from me. I've never had a dog not learn it with no more than one or two repetitions.
if your dog has not learned the "leave it" and you still use it, and it's not very solid, then by all means, change it. it will be better for you and the dog's understanding of what is expected.
by Wolfinbok on 02 June 2010 - 19:06
Ruger1,
You did ok, but Phil has the best comments use his advise. You to
are starting a foundation as a trainer, so start a strong one. You usually have to pay for
this kind of abuse so don't complain. Good advise for free.
You did ok, but Phil has the best comments use his advise. You to
are starting a foundation as a trainer, so start a strong one. You usually have to pay for
this kind of abuse so don't complain. Good advise for free.
by TessJ10 on 02 June 2010 - 20:06
Nope, insults won't work. How on earth do you get "holding a conversation" from one sharp "Leave It" command? It takes one second to say Leave It. And the proof is in the training. All my dogs learn "Leave it" as puppies. It's such an easy command; it takes one training session to learn it, with of course reinforcement during other sessions as practice. Conversation? No. Instant response? You betcha.
by Ruger1 on 02 June 2010 - 20:06
I don't' want to tick anyone off here, but what kind of collar are you folks using on a 6month old for the purpose of this kind of correction? Should I start a new thread for this question? Just asking...
Ruger1
Ruger1
by Ruger1 on 02 June 2010 - 20:06
Wolfinbok.....I can't argue there...you can't beat these prices anywhere...
by Wolfinbok on 02 June 2010 - 20:06
Ruger1,
Your puppy is fine, you are missing the point.
THE POINT...............If your program is a mess,
and you practice it as a mess, it will just get worse.
Clean it up, go back to a sold foundation, simple
and few words that Phil has given you. Use these
words as executable commands, not as request given
in time of doldrum. They are the standard like the
breed has it's standard . Build on that before you go to
the next step. Don't use a hard correction for bad command.
Your puppy is fine, you are missing the point.
THE POINT...............If your program is a mess,
and you practice it as a mess, it will just get worse.
Clean it up, go back to a sold foundation, simple
and few words that Phil has given you. Use these
words as executable commands, not as request given
in time of doldrum. They are the standard like the
breed has it's standard . Build on that before you go to
the next step. Don't use a hard correction for bad command.
by Ruger1 on 02 June 2010 - 22:06
Wolfinbok, that was a great wrap up to an awesome thread. I am going to spend some time re-reading this thread.
Training GSD is not as easy as some make it look....
Ruger1
Training GSD is not as easy as some make it look....
Ruger1
by CrysBuck25 on 03 June 2010 - 17:06
What you were told above is something to always remember, Ruger1...
When you give a command, regardless of what word you choose to use, it is a command, not a request. Sharp, make sure the dog knows you mean it. If you ever get the dog started down the road where a command is a request that can be ignored or obeyed, his choice, you've just made your job a lot harder. Mean it, and enforce it.
That's all I can say on this...Good luck...And have fun.
(by the way, I've never done Petco obedience, either...Read lots of books, from Koehler to Woodstock, to Millan and dozens of others, and put what made sense to me into practice...Just so you know. But it was obedience, as in pets, not competition)
Crys
When you give a command, regardless of what word you choose to use, it is a command, not a request. Sharp, make sure the dog knows you mean it. If you ever get the dog started down the road where a command is a request that can be ignored or obeyed, his choice, you've just made your job a lot harder. Mean it, and enforce it.
That's all I can say on this...Good luck...And have fun.
(by the way, I've never done Petco obedience, either...Read lots of books, from Koehler to Woodstock, to Millan and dozens of others, and put what made sense to me into practice...Just so you know. But it was obedience, as in pets, not competition)
Crys
by hexe on 04 June 2010 - 00:06
Now I understand where you were coming from, Phil; initially it sounded more like you had an issue with the entire concept of teaching the dog an avoidance command, as opposed to your preference for single-word commands.
Phil Behun wrote:
"As for your "repeat" your "Leave It" command if he/she doesn't drop something in it's mouth, AT THAT POINT IT'S TOO LATE. Go in it's mouth and get it!!! Now your "Leave It" has become nothing more than lip service, IT'S IN THE MOUTH AND IT COULD BE DANGEROUS. "
And Phil's point here absolutely needs to be driven home as strongly as possible, too--not just for this command, but any command. As soon as you repeat a command without taking some action to get compliance at the same time, you've made the command pointless, and will have to do triple the work just to try and get it to ever register with the dog.
Phil also wrote:
"BTW Crys, you are correct with your response about using commands which require no thought. Commands almost need to be "action" related and not necessarily "reaction" related. You as a handler/owner need to be able to respond quickly without first having to pull out your book of translated dog terms."
The above is exactly why I do like 'leave it' as a command--those have always been the first words to come out of my mouth when an animal of mine is heading or reaching for something I want them to avoid, from the time I was a kid and didn't know any better...it's my personal natural respose, so I never saw any reason to change it. It doesn't hurt that my version of the phrase is short and sharp in sound, just like 'pfui!', etc., but the word 'pfui' wasn't in my vocabulary as a kid, so it's not a second-nature utterance the way 'leave it' is for me.
Phil Behun wrote:
"As for your "repeat" your "Leave It" command if he/she doesn't drop something in it's mouth, AT THAT POINT IT'S TOO LATE. Go in it's mouth and get it!!! Now your "Leave It" has become nothing more than lip service, IT'S IN THE MOUTH AND IT COULD BE DANGEROUS. "
And Phil's point here absolutely needs to be driven home as strongly as possible, too--not just for this command, but any command. As soon as you repeat a command without taking some action to get compliance at the same time, you've made the command pointless, and will have to do triple the work just to try and get it to ever register with the dog.
Phil also wrote:
"BTW Crys, you are correct with your response about using commands which require no thought. Commands almost need to be "action" related and not necessarily "reaction" related. You as a handler/owner need to be able to respond quickly without first having to pull out your book of translated dog terms."
The above is exactly why I do like 'leave it' as a command--those have always been the first words to come out of my mouth when an animal of mine is heading or reaching for something I want them to avoid, from the time I was a kid and didn't know any better...it's my personal natural respose, so I never saw any reason to change it. It doesn't hurt that my version of the phrase is short and sharp in sound, just like 'pfui!', etc., but the word 'pfui' wasn't in my vocabulary as a kid, so it's not a second-nature utterance the way 'leave it' is for me.
by Piper on 04 June 2010 - 00:06
I have had GSD for the past 46 years,am now working with #6 who is 4.5 month old, LEAVE IT has always worked for me.
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