Best Puppy Food - Fromm vs. Orijen? - Page 2

I have used Orijen for a couple of years with good success, however, I prefer the Adult (which is an All life stage) over the puppy formula. Unfortunately, when I picked up up my last order, I found out that Orijen has reformulated and renamed - Adult is now called "Original" AND THEY CUT THE GLUCOSAMINE AND CHONDROITIN LEVELS IN HALF. IT NO LONGER MANUFACTURED IN CANADA, BUT IN THE US. I also feel that the Canadian ingredients would be of higher quality. whether that is perception only or fact, I don't know. They have also made the bag size smaller. I raise 1-2 litters a year. i am not sure if I will stick with Orijen or start a new search for quality kibble. I have been supplementing with VIctor and have not noticed a change in coat and weight. Considered switching to Victor, because the changes made by Orijen has me pretty upset, but after reading the above comments, it looks like its back to the drawing board for me :(.
I have tried the Fromms and did not like it.

I will warn once on this thread and then shut my mouth. It's not my business what people feed their pups but I can't *not* explain the detriment of feeding something SO high in calcium to large breed pups. Dutchies and Mals do not have the same ortho concerns as other, heavier, larger breeds. Because someone can feed Orijen to two puppies and not have problems does not mean that it's "safe."

Anecdotally, I, personally, have had problems with every pup I have fed Orijen to. This was waaaay back, back before I knew better and thought feeding it was the best I could do. Now I know better. Considering they were different genetics, I do blame the food. I have also spoken with a GR breeder who had very dramatic changes in pups' ortho health when she switched to Orijen (after 2 litters she quit using it due to a very high percentage of elbow surgeries). No one is going to pay for a study on this, so take it FWIW.

Ideal calcium for a large breed pup is between about .7-1.2%. Orijen adult is up around 2.1%, if memory serves. Pups' bodies are not able to self-regulate calcium as adults can. This means, they cannot simply excrete excess in their urine. Here is a link to a Dog Food Advisor discussion on LBP nutrition- there are great medical studies on this page! Some need to be paid for to be read :( There is also a link to a list compiled by a Bloodhound breeder who took the time to call companies and ask the actual or average calcium content of the "better" foods. Her list has been updated many times and I use it often as a guide for puppy people wondering what to feed.
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

Regarding the earlier question about which Farmina formula...I am actually waiting on a call back from them with a list of maximum or average calcium levels which I will post. :)

I don't know where you are located, but this is the analysis for Acana Large Breed Puppy food in Canada.
http://acana.com/our-foods/heritage/puppy-large-breed/

Crude protein (min.) 33 %
Fat content (min.) 15 %
Crude ash (max.) 7 %
Crude fibres (max.) 6 %
Moisture (max.) 12 %
Calcium (min.) 1.4 %
Phosphorus (min.) 1 %
Omega-6 fatty acids (min.) 2.4 %
Omega-3 fatty acids (min.) 1.2 %
DHA (min.) 0.35 %
EPA (min.) 0.35 %
Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg
Chondroitin sulfate (min.) 900 mg/kg
Linoleic acid (min.) 2.2 %
Carbohydrate (NFE) 27 %

I feed my adult dog Acana "Sport & Agility" and he is doing well on it, but will get loose stools if he gets too much, so it required a bit of experimentation to get the quantity correct. The Acana in Canada is made from Canadian-sourced ingredients, not sure about for the market in USA.

Acana plant moved to Kentucky.

This is the page that comes up when you select "Canada" from the drop-down menu in the top-left corner:
http://acana.com/
Many Alberta-sourced ingredients.

This is the page that loads from selecting "USA" from that drop-down menu:
http://acana.com/?lang=usa

It would seem from this page that Champion pet foods manufactures in Edmonton area (Alberta, Canada) and Kentucky.
http://www.championpetfoods.com/careers/

I would conclude that they have facilities in Canada and USA, therefore the Acana food that I buy is manufactured in Alberta and the food you get in USA is made in Kentucky. The "Sport & Agility" blend that I buy is not even available in the USA, yet.

Jenni,
I really appreciate the advise. After reading your original post I went and looked up the calcium levels, best I could, of some of the "top" foods and from what I could find Orijen Puppy was 1.2 - 1.5% calcium, the adult was a little higher at 1.6%, but many of the other "top" brands were actually higher than orijen at 1.7%. Could they have maybe changed the formula? I definitely don't want to feed something that may hurt my pup. I also used the dogfoodadvisor website and Fromm only got 4 stars from them. They did really like the Farmina (5 stars) so I have been considering that brand as well.

Chris

I used to use FROMM as well and did more research and changed to Taste of the Wild.

I think FROMM is good and I think TOTW is BETTER.

Acana did not work for my 2 guys was too rich and they started changing formulas when they moved to Kentucky plant. Went to Petcurean "Go" line (LID) have had great success since change about 4 months ago...

also Canadian sourced. They also have a more expensive line "NOW". Have not tried that line yet but also Petcurean and also Canadian sourced.

Nan

TOTW is Diamond, FYI...not that I have never fed it in a pinch, but never long term, as I simply do not trust the ingredient quality at that price point.

Chris, yes, they have changed formulas. The old ones had potatoes and they have changed a few other things over the years, too. There has been pressure to label maximum levels, I guess, and when they had to do that, there was motivation to make them lower, perhaps. Regardless, if .7 - 1.2 is optimal, I'm not at all interested in pushing it in the 1.5-1.6 range. You only get one chance to grow them right!

I am supposed to hear back from Farmina by tomorrow on the maximums.