Top Showlines with good protection phase - Page 3

Thanks for the advice Rik.
W

Being the owner of ObiWan vom Theishof, I will chime in and say that it is always nice when I enter a dog in our USA Sieger Shows and have someone come up to me and introduce themself, by saying something along the lines of, "When I see you walk on the field with a dog, I don't care what dog it is, I'm going to stop and watch, because I know it's gonna WORK!".  I am a very small breeder, my name is not huge, but when I show up, knowing I'll place mid-pack, I will always bring a normal structured V dog that can work.  This show breeder of 23 years CARES about working ability and wants a normal, athletic structure.  Inevitably, because I breed show lines, I am lumped into the category of "show dogs" and I have to cringe on that, it is embarrassing.  I have never sent one of my dogs off for a title, I title each of my dogs myself.  Through all of these years, I've learned what to look for in the puppies to choose a great one for my next generation down to natural, genetic full grip and to maintain dogs that do not diminish in drive through correction, most do not understand this but working line people do.  I do not say all of this to be a braggart, just so that people out there can understand there are a few of us that do care tremendously about maintaining work ethic in the showline and will continue on with our efforts.

Triumphs Gucci lines - Through Amigo/Quartz/Frei Hirschel, Fedor Arminius and Cello Romerau

Karats Ulk - Through Ghandi + Ulk Arlett, Cello Romerau, Fedor Arminus, Zamb Wienerau, Fanto Hirschel

Hill Farbenspiel - Through  Cello Romerau, Ulk Arlett, Zamb Wienerau, Fedor Arminius,

Ando Altenberger Land - Through Jeck Noricum, Fedor Arminius, Eiko Kirschental


Just a few....
Do you see a pattern? Granted MANY of these dogs in the background are in MOST modern show lines, but the difference is how close they are to the front as well as how many times they are in the background.
Just food for thought in looking at modern pedigrees.
There is no substitute for hands on research, where you learn what to look for and observe the dog yourself. Then carry it forward to keep an eye on what that dog is currently producing. Its not a quick fix.... you MUST do your own homework and not take everyone else's opinion for granted. Then taking all this information you gather.... and serious consideration of the area's your bitch needs improvement you should be able to make a very good educated guess as to which male will be best for her.

Hope that helps some,
Debby

djc,

It sure does and thanks for sharing your valuable experience and research. Ibrahim

Heidi you bring up many excellent points also! Besides stacking the deck with the right bloodlines knowing what else to look for is also key!
Because not every puppy in every litter (show or working lines) has the same initial potential to work. I've seen many working lines that would not work, but that ratio is much lower than show line puppies that don't have good potential to work. Testing and knowing what to look for, in addition to conformation and movement are the keys in choosing the right dog to keep and knowing which dogs do best in working/show homes and which will do best as faithful companions. There are of course MANY other factors, such as how a puppy is raised and whether the owner/handler/trainer knows how to work with that type of puppy/dog to bring out the best and fix what needs fixing. I am convinced that more show dogs would do tons better if they were raised by a knowledgeable person who's intense interest IS raising/training for working excellence. Then again if you don't have the right "stuff" from the "right" lines it can be useless also.  The other thing I find interesting is that excellent training/raising can compensate for a marginal dog and make him look better than he really is. The opposite is also true - That poor training/raising can ruin a good dog. That is why it is so important to look not only at the dog but to what it is producing... because it could be a good/great dog just because of the right kind of training/raising and not because of it's genetics and therefore will not produce well unless the progeny is raised/trained well. It's even harder to look at a marginal dog and be able to see through poor training/raising as opposed to what potential that dog would have had if it had been raised/trained correctly! This goes for BOTH working and show lines.
Debby 

Heidi, your work is appreciated and a day will come and the effort will be properly given value and benefited from by future breeders.

Ibrahim

wlpool,

Thanks for this nice topic, I haven't enjoyed such posts and replies on PDB since long time, looks like you brought out something good from some of the best on this forum, thanks again.

Ibrahim 

I think we should move this to the German Shepherd forum and maybe we can get better response?
Is that possible MODS?
Debby

Heidi, thank your for your insight. Your response is appreciated. You said from experience with the German dogs what I learned fro 40 years of showing other breeds. And I consider the American Show Shepherd another breed.

With the American dogs, there is no such term as show line. There are dogs capable of completing an AKC Championship and the rest are referred to as pets. 2nd place in AKC means nothing and enough of them and the dog is a pet. Pure and simple.

Some people seem incapable of understanding that breeding is compromising. What am I willing to give up to get this. If there were a perfect dog that produced perfect progeny, we would all breed to him.

If one wants the spectacular gait, the color, the name, then there may be other attributes that they may have to compromise on. If one wants good character first, then maybe they are not going to get the dog always at the front of the line.

And I will never understand why some are offended at what others think of their dog or their choice of "lines". 

At the expense of offending some, I am going to repeat again what I believe. Do your thing, put your dog out there and let the dog speak for itself. I have never and will never waste one moment of my life defending my dog. That ain't my job. The dog can do it or not. And my dogs have never been hidden in my back yard.

Rik