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by Rik on 13 March 2011 - 03:03
VKG, that is my thoughts exactly. I am a buyer of GSD, not a breeder. The last three I have bought, 2 s/l and one w/l (a Javir daughter) involved travel to Germany and over a great portion of the U.S. One of them came with a guarantee (meant no more to me than the paper it was written on). I have yet to sign one that was not written to protect the seller. I have a file cabinet full of them and not one has been honored.
In each instance, I felt that I got more dog than the seller got money. The very top breeders of GSD are in Germany, and I have yet to meet one who places restrictions if I meet their price. Yet here in the U.S., breeders who will never place dogs in Sieger, BSP or WUSV find suckers willing to pay $2000, $3000, $5000 for mediocre pups and be dictated to what they can do with the dog.
It's a mystery to me,
Rik
In each instance, I felt that I got more dog than the seller got money. The very top breeders of GSD are in Germany, and I have yet to meet one who places restrictions if I meet their price. Yet here in the U.S., breeders who will never place dogs in Sieger, BSP or WUSV find suckers willing to pay $2000, $3000, $5000 for mediocre pups and be dictated to what they can do with the dog.
It's a mystery to me,
Rik
by Don Corleone on 13 March 2011 - 03:03
Well said, Rik. This argument comes up again and again. I never understand it. I've always said, if you don't trust a person to make the right decisions with a pup that is theirs, why sell to them to begin with?
by Jenni78 on 13 March 2011 - 04:03
Gee, Don, where I have heard that before?
Hmmm, Rik, I may have to send you my guarantee. Pretty sure the dog is the one most protected.
Hmmm, Rik, I may have to send you my guarantee. Pretty sure the dog is the one most protected.
by Don Corleone on 13 March 2011 - 17:03
Jenn, I've been saying it for years. I'm glad you and I agree on something. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut, sometimes. ;)
by Jenni78 on 13 March 2011 - 17:03
I didn't mean it like "Teacher, Don copied me!" Just meant it like.....HELLO...people, this is not rocket science......why does no one else consider this simple fact?
Sheesh, men sure are insecure sometimes...even the ones who are brimming with confidence like the Enzyte commercial.
Sheesh, men sure are insecure sometimes...even the ones who are brimming with confidence like the Enzyte commercial.
by Ron Hudson on 13 March 2011 - 18:03
You should have gone into this with your eyes wide open. It was your decision to buy the dog with limited registration and now only the breeder can lift it. Perhaps if you use a little sugar and honey you can convince the breeder that your dog is an exception to the rule.
by darylehret on 13 March 2011 - 21:03
Show me a man insecure about nothing at all, and I'll show you an impassionate man. Men either care too much, or never enough. What is it with you women? ;-)
by Don Corleone on 13 March 2011 - 22:03
Hahahahaha! I invented that thought.
by Jenni78 on 13 March 2011 - 23:03
I dunno, Daryl. See thread w/my screen name for classic examples. I read that and was sooo glad I'm not a man! Don't get me wrong; men are not always peaches, but you start to wonder, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Meaning, did women become hard to please because men are apathetic or did women start out that way and now men don't care because we're impossible to please? Rhetorical....don't answer. This is about ltd. registration. :-)
Don, of course you did honey. Of course you did.
Don, of course you did honey. Of course you did.
by Silbersee on 14 March 2011 - 14:03
jmpaso,
my hat off to you for never having bred a sub-standard puppy. You must be one of the few, if not the only one. Which brings me to the question: What is sub-standard? I am not trying to be confrontational, only curious.
For me, it is anything outside the standard and does not have to be negative or precluding the puppy from living a "normal" family companion life.
That included a long stockcoat puppy (until last year or so), a missing tooth (if puppy was kept back until past teething), size, soft ears and of course (for us the most common reason to sell with limited registration) a missing testicle at 8 to 9 weeks of age.
However, if we do sell with limited registration, these puppies are significantly less in price. Otherwise, we too sell the other puppies with full registration. We try to weed out puppy buyers and with a couple of exceptions, have had truly great people giving our carefully bred puppies new homes. In addition, we have a few stipulations in our contract which hopefully makes people think twice about indiscriminately breeding or even selling them on. Otherwise, it is up to the new owners. A breeder should put that much trust into them. Some breeders mean well when they place restrictions on sales. Most of the time, they feel that a dog should have a title in order to reproduce but 90% of all breeders fail to do so themselves with their own breeding "stock". A reputable breeder should alway lead by good example ;-D !
As to why German breeders do not put any restrictions or guarantees on their litters or dogs for sale, is easily answered: They do not have to!!! The SV does it for them by regulating breeding and German Consumer Protection Law does the rest when it comes to genetics and health.
According to SV statistics, only about 10% of all GSDs born will get titled and breed surveyed, meaning are deemed breed worthy. This is not saying that all 90% of the remaining dogs are sub-standard but a significant amount is. Therefore, it surprises me when a breeder claims not to ever have bred a sub-standard puppy.
Chris
my hat off to you for never having bred a sub-standard puppy. You must be one of the few, if not the only one. Which brings me to the question: What is sub-standard? I am not trying to be confrontational, only curious.
For me, it is anything outside the standard and does not have to be negative or precluding the puppy from living a "normal" family companion life.
That included a long stockcoat puppy (until last year or so), a missing tooth (if puppy was kept back until past teething), size, soft ears and of course (for us the most common reason to sell with limited registration) a missing testicle at 8 to 9 weeks of age.
However, if we do sell with limited registration, these puppies are significantly less in price. Otherwise, we too sell the other puppies with full registration. We try to weed out puppy buyers and with a couple of exceptions, have had truly great people giving our carefully bred puppies new homes. In addition, we have a few stipulations in our contract which hopefully makes people think twice about indiscriminately breeding or even selling them on. Otherwise, it is up to the new owners. A breeder should put that much trust into them. Some breeders mean well when they place restrictions on sales. Most of the time, they feel that a dog should have a title in order to reproduce but 90% of all breeders fail to do so themselves with their own breeding "stock". A reputable breeder should alway lead by good example ;-D !
As to why German breeders do not put any restrictions or guarantees on their litters or dogs for sale, is easily answered: They do not have to!!! The SV does it for them by regulating breeding and German Consumer Protection Law does the rest when it comes to genetics and health.
According to SV statistics, only about 10% of all GSDs born will get titled and breed surveyed, meaning are deemed breed worthy. This is not saying that all 90% of the remaining dogs are sub-standard but a significant amount is. Therefore, it surprises me when a breeder claims not to ever have bred a sub-standard puppy.
Chris
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