Westminister Kennel Club Dog Show - Page 4

Niesia - Nice post. 

I was going to make another comment, but I think Louise and wrestleman pretty much covered anything I might say.

Well hell, I think I'll comment anyway.

It has gotten to the point that dogs with poor ears, weak pasterns, hock walking, lip licking GSD make it to Westminster. These are the best of the best that the U.S. has bred. You couldn't catch half of them with a butterfly net if they got loose.

And I can only say that if anyone truly believes that it is the dog that wins and not the handler, then jump in there and start writing checks.

Don't want to hurt any feelings, but it is ridiculous to say that a dog can do Sch. Just get in there and do it and show the dog, not an opinion. The proof is always on the end of the leash.

anyway, thats how Rik sees it.

Rik

 AM I RIGHT IN ASSUMING THAT JIMMY MOSES ONLY HANDLES AMERICAN S/L? JUST CURIOUS. THANKS

niesia..."american lines didn't loose their ability","you can MAKE an american dog do schutzhund","herding horses at 5 months old"(probably more like running horses..big difference)....surely you have a right to your opinions,but i'd have to say your comments mirror what i hear from most "am/line" fanciers......."well they could do the work ,but they don't".....if this were the case,then surely someone would break the mold and take an american line dog to the regionals, nationals or wusv.....from what i've seen and personally been exposed...that'll never happen. for the vast majority of those wanting a gsd(lassie,rin tin tin or whoever)the american line will be perfectly suitable for sitting on the couch eating bon bons and popcorn and being the perfect cuddle bunny....just don't ask for anything more than that...so don't say that these lines "can do it",if they aren't...(vom ost see..home of a-dino vom ost see,s-navarre vom kraftwerk,c-demerlina von sudlich platz,e-tripa vom ost see)

Vo most see,

And what’s wrong with somebody wanting to have a GSD “perfectly suitable for sitting on the couch eating bon bonus and popcorn and being the perfect cuddle bunny…” Be honest – how many people out there who want to have GSD can really handle and live with the high drive GSDs? Do you think that ALL working line/ high drive puppies are ending up being worked?

RE your comment on herding… I am not blind and I know what herding is – my girl didn’t chase or nor she nip on them - I was actually surprised to see her moving 3 horses in a group from one side of corral to the other without making them panic, fun to watch horses behaving like sheep (usually they stomp the ground or charge the dog and tell him to back off)… Maybe they knew she was a pup…

And most of all – we ALL fancy what we do – isn’t our right? But don’t tell me that my girl (that you don’t know) has no drive because she is from Am lines… 

You know why I think Am line people rarely (if ever) do Schutzhund? Probably because of people in Sch clubs who think that “THOSE” dogs cannot possibly DO Schutzhund… And I thought that Schutzhund supposed to be a sport… What about the sport spirit?

@ lovejags. Jimmy is retired from showing now. You will only see him showing dogs he is breeder of. He and Sheree have started incorporating German s/l in their program.

He showed Liedo to his AKC championship and is using him in his program.

Rik

niesia...i made my comment personal,which is uncalled for on this forum,please accept my apoligee...surely i can't make a statement about your 5 mo. old "herding" horses, i just don't believe it.people with american line dogs have always been welcome at any schutzhund club i've ever been to,even encourged to work their dogs...it seems that they(the handler/owner) don't have a true desire,or drive to even train for a simple "BH",and sadly enough,neither do their dogs,so they give up quickly and go to the local"petsmart" with their "low/no drive" dogs for training and maybe advance to some boring AKC type o/b competion(if you can call it that).the spirit of sport is alive and well at any club i've ever been to,surely there are distractors and nay-sayers against the am/line dogs,but they are few in number...there are numerous ways for any dog to participate in dogsport,be it schutzhund or any other venue,but the am-line gsd is sadly "missing in action"...most people that i know were exposed to dogsport after they purchased a dog,quickly found out that the dog they had wasn't suitable,either they quit or got a more workable dog....if all a person desires is "something that looks like a gsd",then go ahead..get an american-line dog,but the old excuse that's so often used"my dogs can do it,but they don't",doesn't fly very far anymore.i've tried not to make this personal,and it's only my opinion....i think the biggest offenders to dogsport are the people with american dogs,looking for an excuse to continue breeding poor quaility dogs and saying that"those dogsport people with their crazy coyote dogs don't like us"when i see a "hock walking,floppy eared,down pasterned" am-line win the nationals,i'll bue first to que up in the "butt kissing line....but i don't plan on puckering up any time soon.

Vom ost see,
I really try not to take comments personally. Everybody is entitled to their opinions - that's why we have this website. I love my dog, am proud of her and I believe she is a great representation of the breed. I wish we would focus on the dog itself and not the lines they come from. I can understand that you may don’t believe me when I comment on my puppy behavior, it’s your choice and I won’t try to convenience you.

I do agree that for any kind of sport you need to have a ‘special kind of dog’. And I simply believe that that kind of dog can be found in any line (any dog). There are many pure and mixed breed dogs doing Schutzhund (boxers, rotties, etc.) with their owners and getting titled, so stating that any other dog that ‘working line dog’ won’t do isn’t really true. And again I believe that the Am line (or any other than work line) puppy with right drive can do it with the person who wants to do it. If the owner/trainer doesn’t have a drive – don’t blame the dog. It’s easier to do work “protection” in Sch with dog that has a high pray and bite drive …

And Vo most see, there are other sports than Sch – AKC obedience, agility, herding, etc. – you’ll see a lot of Am lines alongside German lines doing it. Why Am line owners won’t do Sch? My own example – I asked about the good Sch club in the neighborhood – there is one – BUT “it’s a great club, the trainer is awesome – if you can take him criticizing the choice of your dog…” Would you join the club where everybody laughs at your dog for what lines he comes from and not for what the dog is?

@ Don "Oops! I missed it. I was busy watching an infomercial on "How not to waste one's time". Kinda like watching NASCAR without the excitement. They go in a circle, but nobody crashes."

geez Don, you're the one complaining about how dull the board has become and all the "pretty puppy" threads. just sit back and enjoy the occasionally controversial thread.

Rik  

Actually, most of us who are involved in schutzhund in the USA started out with an American show line dog because that's all we ever knew there was.  Unfortunately we discovered our Am Show line dogs did  not have the necessary drives, work ethic, courage, etc., the dogs just were not on  par with their European counterparts.   Many times the dogs are too spooky and fearful, have bad nerves.  This was as true in the 70s as it is today.   There has only been  a handful of American Show lines dogs that have managed to earn a  title since schutzhund was introduced in the USA more than 40 years ago, and to blame this sad track record on being laughed at is a cop out, the reason so few Am Show line dogs title is because the  majority of Am Show line dogs simply can't cut it,  it's been bred right out of them.