Sable puppy showing in AKC - Page 3

@Susie - over the Channel here, we are experimenting
with both special classes for longcoats, and entering them
in the same classes with normal coats. Neither, as yet,
attract all that many entries, although the Whites & Long
Coats Soc 'companion shows' often attracted huge entries
in the years while longcoats (well, not truly 'long' ones but
langstockhaar) were excluded. Most were B&G or Sable or
Black, not a lot were the dilute colours/whites even though
they too could be shown at those events. Not sure where
they have all gone now, except that many many of them
were 'pet bred' and did not follow Germanic (or even Show
'Alsatian') body structure !

UK Kennel Club has recently agreed to write in that coats

can compete under their Breed Standard (so ie they can

be included, unfaulted, in Show classes) but the KC has

not taken a position of preference on whether they are

shown in separate L/C classes or not.  However there is

a lot of wrath going on, on Facebook et al, still - so clearly

some exhibitors do not want their precious standard coated

darlings challenged directly by the fluffies ! 

Who cares what other competitors want. You ain't looking to show 'for them
Just sayin...go out there and have fun with your dog. Regardless of what you do, or who else likes it, at the end of the day, if you and your dog had fun..who else matters

Here is my sable showline female, Roxy von Sofanga.

She had Sg1 title for 4 times, and Sg2 title for 2 times under SV judges. 10 dogs least in each show and she was the only sable girl in each ring. =)

Very nice looking bitch. I like her .

Thank you :)

Thanks Kit 😉

[susie] 2.6.2016 - 16:06

● "It´s not mainly about the color, but about the structure. Most sables are "European working lines", their structure doesn´t fit to the AKC standard"
Untrue. Although there is PLENTY in the International Standard that disqualifies pooches, the 5 Faults left in the AKC & CKC "pretend Standards" and the completely gutted The KC "pretend Standard" allow almost ANYTHING to be judged as an 'AlsatiOn' or a NAmerican Ski-Sloped Dog' or a 'Prick-Eared Basset' or a 'Titanic Tail-Tucker', depending on what the day's judge fancies.

● " - that said, they will have problems ( and structure wise a lot of working lines do have problems in my country, too ).
It is what it is."
A pooch is what it is.
But unless it actually FITS
http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-en.pdf
it is NOT a GSD. Too many show-is-all people look only for physical exaggerations, and too many dogsport-is-all people look for only attitude exaggerations. To be a GSD the pooch must have BOTH mental & physical traits that all fit WITHIN the only valid GSD Standard, as proven but its origins with Max von Stephanitz and Artur Meyer, through SV conferences, then EUSV conferences, and now WUSV conferences where about 77 GSD nations have voting representatives.


[Hundmutter] 2.6.2016 - 16:06

● "OP, could you try "SV" style Shows ? - I don't fully understand the American system but a lot of people on here seem to refer to them. The dogs I believe tend more towards 'German' style that AKC / USA Standard type, with the advantage that 'working' lines are also not so foreign to them. Dunno how you contact them, ask the Americans ?"
There are 2 Yank GSD clubs that hold SV-type events
USCA: http://www.germanshepherddog.com/
WDA : http://www.gsdca-wda.org/

 

 

[Hundmutter] 2.6.2016 - 17:06

● "Anyway no one should EXPECT to win / get the best grading available, when Showing - someone always has to be further down the line !"
Only the last 9 words are true.
There are only 2 reasons for experienced people to enter shows.
One is to win CCs/Green Stars/Points.
The other is to show the breeders around the ringside what your kennel is currently producing.
Newbies have to accept what happens while they are learning, but if a judge places my GSD behind a dog I deem inferior I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL THAT JUDGE THINKS A GSD IS!
The 2 worst judges I've seen were
#1 an Ozzie all-breeder. I wasn't even entered, but as the only sables he hadn't put last had a sable behind them (and at the time NZ's best bloodlines were sables) I collected as many sables as friends would lend me then marched up to him after he'd finished the breed and demanded to know what he had against sables. His answer floored me - he said he'd put a sable as BOB. The bitch he'd put BOB was effectively a double cousin of my own stock, but her breeder had used a pale brother instead of the dark brother we'd used. She'd been born a tan-point and had lost almost all her black by 3 years old. Just HOW ignorant can an all-breeds judge BE???
#2 Elizabeth Moncreiff of Moncreiff. She was so arrogant that after the individual examinations she called back into the ring only the dogs she thought she intended to place. Our dog was NOT called back in whichever of Junior or Intermediate it was. Our mentor's Ch.Rossfort Siaradus wasn't called back in Open (instead, an almost as dark German import was, and gained BIS. His only contribution to the breed was to sire a litter of epileptics...). At the critique evening I asked WHY???? It turned out that our boy was the ONLY one in his class who been marked with the 3 stars she used to indicate her top grading. In Open, Siaradus was one of only 3 with that grading (hey - that means that Siaradus & our boy were likely contenders for the CC and BIS! But SHE couldn't be bothered checking her notes and calling us back into the ring!) She apologised - but it was too damned LATE for her to correct her stupid errors!

 

[susie] 2.6.2016 - 17:06
● ""Coats" are shown in own rings, in that case it´s no disadvantage to own a coat, at least less "opponents"..."
I curse the Hun who produced the current translation from Deutsche to English. And the people at the 31.8.2009 WUSV Conference in Ulm who calmly approved the English they were shown, encouraging non-speakers of German to get even more confused.
The GSD has THREE coats, after 2 or 3 earlier coat-types were eliminated.
▫ The SH (StockHaar - harsh, flat-lying guard-hairs about 55mm/2" long, over a tight undercoat) has always been the preference for the tasks GSDs are expected to perform. At one stage ONLY the SHs could gain KKl.1.
▫ The LSH (LangStockHaar - softish guard-hairs about 10cm/4" long over an adequate undercoat) was for a while allowed KKl.2, but was then banned, and then resurrected as a SEPARATE "breed" in 2008 & '09. That stupid translator used "Long Coat", despite that the LSH is NOT the breed's long coat. I can sympathise with the translator - there is no agreed equivalent to LSH in English, unless you accept Medium Coat or Plush Coat. But "Long" is the WORST option!
▫ The LH (LangHaar - silky wisps about 15cm/6" long that part over the spine even when dry, and have little or no undercoat) that is the non-weather-proof Long Coat and very properly banned.


[Hundmutter] 2.6.2016 - 21:06
● "@Susie - over the Channel here, we are experimenting with both special classes for longcoats, and entering them in the same classes with normal coats."
Not quite correctly termed. At KC events there is only 1 breed - "Special Classes" don't qualify for CCs so far as I know, so the British-bred LSH who became the LSH Sieger in Germany in, I think, 2015 has to either enter in the standard classes if the owner thinks the judge is a "GSD person", or enter in the "Specials" and have no chance of a CC.
Did I get that split right? Yooz Pommies offer FAR too many classes, with the result that it is hard for a pooch to go home without at least a ribbon.....

● "Neither, as yet, attract all that many entries"
I rarely go to shows. Our NZKC had to panic and change its rules after separating the LHs into a separate register from the SHs then being asked by the GSD clubs for SEPARATE CCs for the LSHs. NZKC's problem is that the breed clubs are supposed to be SINGLE-BREED clubs, but suddenly GSD clubs were responsible for TWO breeds. However, NZKC people can convince themselves that 1 + 1 = 1, so the rules were changed declaring that GSD clubs were still SINGLE-breed clubs.

The few LSHs I've seen were unworthy, for reasons such as a humped back and/or cow-hocks. At the 2015 GSD National we offered 7 standard classes per sex and saw 12  LSH exhibits (5 of them already champions): Dogs saw 0,  0,  1,  0,  1,  2,  1  in the ring. Bitches saw 1,  0,  1,  4,  0,  1,  0  exhibited.

● "UK Kennel Club has recently agreed to write in that coats can compete under their Breed Standard (so ie they can be included, unfaulted, in Show classes)"
Yeah, sure. and how many UK judges have reported that they placed an LSH ahead of the SHs? I know one has - but also that old-time GSD judge Brian W is STRONGLY against doing so, writing articles to declare that the LSH is contrary to the KC's "standard".
But as there are NO Faults or Disqualifcations in that "standard", how can any pooch be penalised? - except by the judge's personal "taste"!

● "However there is a lot of wrath going on, on Facebook et al, still - so clearly some exhibitors do not want their precious standard coated darlings challenged directly by the fluffies !"
More likely that the fanciers of LSHs don't want their fluffies blocked from CCs!
As The KC allocates its CCs on the basis of breed registrations, I wonder how many sets of CCs would be available to LSHs if The KC agrees to make LSHs a separate variety? I think there are something like 28 pairs of UK CCs available to the GSD breed at present, with perhaps one LSH capable of taking CCs off the SHs.

 

[kitkat3478] 3.6.2016 - 04:06
● "Who cares what other competitors want. You ain't looking to show 'for them"
Really?
So you haven't worked out that the competitors and the breeders around the ringside are the ones who you want to use your male at stud or buy-&-show pups from your brood?
Dog shows are SERIOUS "window-shopping"!
 
● "Just sayin...go out there and have fun with your dog. Regardless of what you do, or who else likes it, at the end of the day, if you and your dog had fun..who else matters"
Fun? You and I have VERY different ideas of what FUN is!


[doga demirel] 3.6.2016 - 12:06
● "Roxy von Sofanga. She had Sg1 title for 4 times, and Sg2 title for 2 times under SV judges."
No she didn't. VG.1 and VG.2 are GRADINGS, not titles. And if YOUR language is English you get English gradings, not German ones. But what language IS your username from? Google couldn't translate "demirel" in any of the languages I tried.
And gee - I hadn't seen the "von Trafalga" kennel name since Don von Trafalga, decades ago!

I agree that she is very nice, and - being a fan of sables - I think I'm a wee bit jealous. But she'd look better if YOUR right leg wasn't disguising the outline of her rear, your left hand disguising her throat & prosternum, and your left shoe disguising the outline of her left paw.

Talking of Miss Moncrief, did you ever see Dunmonaidh Junker, and if so , what was your opinion of him. Progeny ?

[BRADY BEE] on 04 June 2016 - 09:06

● "Talking of Miss Moncrief, did you ever see Dunmonaidh Junker, and if so , what was your opinion of him. Progeny ?"

Of course I did. he was living about 2 hours from us, in the city where my aunt was living and where I had gone to boarding school and where I held my second teaching position. I used him twice (2nd time he was "firing blanks", damnit) and his best son once. The BS Report highlights one of his few problems - he was here quite a while before being shown, while his owner (a "Round The Mountain" cyclist) got him fit enough. He was dumped at his first & only all-breeds show, but once fit he stuck to specialist shows and went 3 years unbeaten by any male in Australia & NZ - including 3 years in a row being Best Dog aka Grand Victor at the big Australian GSD National. He then retired in favour of the son I used, who in turn went one show short of 3 years unbeaten in his sex at NZ GSD shows.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=415853-dunmonaidh-junker
shows-&-tells you most of the important things.  He arrived with VERY low "Quanto pasterns", and one of his puppies won her class despite her wrists almost flopping onto the grass at each stride.
 
An article I wrote for the GSD Supplement to our NZKC Gazette (as it was then) for the GSD breed's 100th anniversary got stuck on analysing exactly what was not-quite perfect about his "front", but he was a little flat-ribbed as well as his upper-arm being steeper than 45°.

In NZ he sired 17 show Chs., 2 Ob.Chs., 1 WT.Ch.
One of his few litters in Australia (he was never at stud there, so cheapskates didn't pay for the awkward 'plane connections to get to his Taranaki home's grass airstrip) produced A.Ch., 1985 A.Res.GV, Ex.Select.3 Vinberg Iced Kiwi CDX:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=424048-vinberg-iced-kiwi

I would LOVE to have used this F4 Junker descendant:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2204494-be-my-yusha-of-sarelle
had I been aware of his existence in  time. As it is, I am negotiating for a Yusha decendant that I'd like born in mid or late 2017.

The Junker daughter I kept showed a bit too much of UK/NZ/A.Ch. Rossfort Premonition's «Ilk & Alsatians» length. If you're curious as how long my Elfi was, click
http://lesp90.wix.com/lorelei-gsd-kennels#!rella/c15hq
and scroll down to the slide-show then click to pic 10. Her son, Lorelei Peter Proust (by UK.Ch, Vornlante Magnum), was a magnificent mover but bitchy in head - so, Percy Elliott being Percy, he kept halting the class, called Peter to the centre, stared soulfully into Peter's eyes, then returned us to 7th in line - with only 6 placings for a class of over 40.

And you're not a Scot, are you! Junker's breeder was Elizabeth Moncreiffe of Moncreiffe.