Any one knows of a Vet in NYC ( five boroughs and a bit beyond ) that sees WL dogs? - Page 5

Simple things-
Guy walking with guitar case
Being touched at vet

yes they are simple ,but it does NOT reasonably  explain why those( simple ) things would cause fear and not a wrangling power saw or the noise double power vaccum on her body. When I stand under the subway the vibration is so great I feel like the train call fall off the track; the dog is not bothered by this. You did not answer the question. When I look at it the only different variable is the presence of a person wanting to overtly interact with or touch the dog. I already said that if the DOG IS ALLOWED  to do the overt approaching towards  a still quiet person she'll just sniff and observe and then shes fine ( but the person has to remain subdued ). Can you  reasonably explain why a fearful dog would approach and sniff out " a simple person ",( whose only change in demeanour  is a cessation of attempting to be overt towards meeting  the dog ). 

BTW hntr ..a good theory is able to explain a wide class of observations but some how your simple" fear model " does not achieve that. 

Nice 1 Yogi. (if I remember right - hntrjmpr434, walks past kennels every day, or shovels there shite every day)

Problem is - they have read to many crap books, and trained zero dogs to EVEN know what defense, smells/looks like.

Suffice to say - they will never demonstrate there own dog working in that drive - because they either don't own a bloody dog, or they will never own a dog in that gear lol.

Gee

Many dogs (other breeds) show the opposite...the dogs are frightened of noises and machinery, but accept contact with humans other than direct family members. So the question can always be asked in reverse...why does a wracking and rumbling power saw frighten a dog but not a thin non-threatening woman? The ideal GSD is the clear-headed stable dog that accepts both in its life without so much more than a curious glance.

I think the answer with regards to your dog may lie in the initial non-verbal messages she received from you regarding her initial introduction to strangers when she a puppy versus her conditioning to her busy NYC environment. I do think she is "nervy" (due to genetics), but you may have unwittingly exacerbated her nervy feelings about humans somewhere along the line to where she is now dangerously suspicious of normal everyday human activity outside of her home. Likewise I think you probably very calmly and positively conditioned her to the noisy environment of a big city. She has negative feelings about humans, but she is neutral about loud noises and machinery and busy streets.

Regarding the vet...he is most likely very nervous about treating your dog. She picks up on that nervousness and it makes her nervous about being around him. She shows her teeth and growls, and he backs away, which gives her power. I had a dog like her too, and I was in the same boat...yearly vet visits and anytime my dog was ill required a muzzle and a sedative. I feel for your situation. A trainer may be able to help, but you will never be able to let down your guard. The people on this board speak some important truths about your dog's nerve situation. Don't discount their input because they're not telling you what you want to hear. She is a lovely looking dog and I am sure she is awesome with your family. It's the other people in her world and yours that you need to protect from her.

so hntr

this is what you are trying to have us believe:

a wrackling running power saw and a ground rumbling subway train 20 feet overhead leaves a dog unfazed, but a 115 lb blonde lady suddenly approaches and the dog immediately becomes afraid....the lady stops, stands still...the dog immediately becomes unafraid of the lady and walks up to her and sniffs her.
Its really hard to buy that model of yours.

I can also try to use your fear explanation for the incident of the beach. Dog is 6 mos old and off leash exploring the shoreline about 30 feet away from me. Suddenly I become aware of a jacket clad figure with guitar case in the distance. The figure comes within 20 feet of me and withing that time the fearful dog has run from 40 feet ( 20 feet from behind me and 20 feet forward me ), and goes for the person's coated hand. I tell the person dont move and the dog disengages. It is difficult to simply invoke the connotative meaning of fear to explain the dog's behavior.

Yep, that's it Gee!
I hope you are able to manage your dog more efficiently Mithuna. I would be sad to know that she hurt someone and had to be PTS.

hntr

I thought you would go into defense for because you became afraid that you model was not able to explain a wide class of observations.

Mithuna, environmental sensitivity [or lack thereof] and insecurity with regard to unfamiliar people are completely different wrinkles in the fabric of a dog's nerve. Sometimes they co-exist, sometimes they don't. Not having seen your dog in action, going just off of what you've had to say up to the present, I suspect the biggest part of her problem is that you've let her get away with this behavior and even encouraged it [in part because you were advised to do so, back when she was just a 6 month old] and limited her socialization once she hit that age [according to your own words]. Consequently, since you didn't teach her that this WASN'T acceptable behavior toward a non-threatening stranger [and somebody approaching you or her in a non-violent manner IS non-threatening] she filled that vacuum with the unnecessary aggression.

She's 18 months old, so there is still sufficient time to retrain her social skills, but the longer you permit her to behave this way, the harder it is going to be to get through to her before someone gets bitten seriously enough to make an issue of it. She doesn't have to fawn all over people [despite having one dog that does this, I don't like to see that in a dog either, TBH]--she DOES have to tolerate the approach of or examination by a non-threatening person because you require that she do so. It's for her own safety, really.

Mithuna weather your dog runs away from an object or acts aggressive towards anything weather it's a 115 lbs women or a 300 lbs man with no cause that's a nerve problem . And the reason your dog stops acting aggressive when the person stops is because when the person is walking towards her there is persure on the dog when the person stops so does the persure u need to learn how to redirect your dog's brain but either way I would never do bit work with a dog like that. And that book thing that gee spoke about makes a lot of sense more book smart than actual handler smart

OP asked: How come a dog can be "nervous'' in re a
non-threatening female stranger but totally ignore power
tools ? Posters above have given you the answers; but put
a bit more simply, the answer to that one, Mithuna, is two-fold:

1 Are YOU equally (and entirely logically), afraid of /
worried by EVERYTHING in your life ? Say do you
regard house fires the same way as shuffling footsteps
in the dark ? Why expect a dog's brain to work any
differently to your own ?

2 Habituation. JMO but I'd lay a pound to a penny that
chainsaw wasn't the first rackety machine your dog has heard
in her life time, you have probably - consciously or not -
conditioned her to such things since she was tiny.