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by aarowsmith on 06 January 2014 - 21:01
Sucky.
by joanro on 06 January 2014 - 21:01
vk4, you just proved that dumb shits who know absolutely nothing about dogs will post ( as you just did) some dumb shit that means absolutely nothing pertaining to dogs....but you did manage to make it entertaining as far as dumb shit being posted goes.
by BlackMalinois on 06 January 2014 - 22:01
Thanks for explanation Stefan I will discuss with some people about your post I come back later about this.
Personal for me only that test what your example is not realy a test I wanna see much more tests for selecting
Example KNPV dogs for revieren they have the job to guarding the subject with barking independent not attacking
maybe I understand your post wrong , thats why I wanna see some videos what is realy happen.
by Staatsmacht on 06 January 2014 - 22:01
@Johann77
If someone say that the knpv dogs are all so serious and real, they should pass this test!!!but they do not.that is the point,they are not better or worse than other dogs/breed.
KNPV is a sport not more!!!
If someone say that the knpv dogs are all so serious and real, they should pass this test!!!but they do not.that is the point,they are not better or worse than other dogs/breed.
KNPV is a sport not more!!!
by BlackMalinois on 07 January 2014 - 02:01
@ Stefan
All the respect personal for me only that test your example is not realy a test I wanna see much more tests for selecting
Example KNPV dogs for revieren they have the job to guarding the subject with barking independent not biting / attack only if the suspecious person is moving. the dog have to guarding until the handler is coming
Later for the real job this exercise on civilien is the same
Maybe I understand your post wrong , thats why I wanna see some videos what is realy happen.
Of-course not all the KNPV dogs are superstars I have seen also very good dogs in IPO, Mondioring. PSA etc.
All the respect personal for me only that test your example is not realy a test I wanna see much more tests for selecting
Example KNPV dogs for revieren they have the job to guarding the subject with barking independent not biting / attack only if the suspecious person is moving. the dog have to guarding until the handler is coming
Later for the real job this exercise on civilien is the same
Maybe I understand your post wrong , thats why I wanna see some videos what is realy happen.
Of-course not all the KNPV dogs are superstars I have seen also very good dogs in IPO, Mondioring. PSA etc.
by chvdberkt on 07 January 2014 - 09:01
The problem is that much PH-1 titled dogs have learned to do their trick.
When a man in a suit is found they have to bark untill the handler comes. When a man is found in jeans and t-shirt sitting on a tree the guy is ingnored, because he is not wearing the suite. A helper in suite running away while shooting activates the dog. Now again with a hiding or standing man in civil suite while the handler is shooting. My guess is that the dog will attack the handler because the dog is triggerd by the shooting and have learned to act because of the shooting.
When a PH-1 dog is bought by police or security they have to train the dog again on this sort of things to make it possible to get to work with the dog.
That are thing folks in KNPV don't wanna hear. It would destroy their believes and their world.
Sure there are also good dogs with a PH title that wont mind if its a suite or civil. They just do their work.
In KNPV the selection of a puppy is different. A puppy is only selected on the possibility of working.
People in IPO with a GSD have bought the dog because he/she is so cute and ohhh yeah working the dog could be nice.
Training methods in KNPV are hard - e-collar, pinch collar, a kick in the ass are normal tools. Just because those methods have proven to bee succesfull.
In Holland there are a few KNPV trainers interested in other training methods used for example in IPO or flyball and when they can use that method they mix that with their own methods.
When a man in a suit is found they have to bark untill the handler comes. When a man is found in jeans and t-shirt sitting on a tree the guy is ingnored, because he is not wearing the suite. A helper in suite running away while shooting activates the dog. Now again with a hiding or standing man in civil suite while the handler is shooting. My guess is that the dog will attack the handler because the dog is triggerd by the shooting and have learned to act because of the shooting.
When a PH-1 dog is bought by police or security they have to train the dog again on this sort of things to make it possible to get to work with the dog.
That are thing folks in KNPV don't wanna hear. It would destroy their believes and their world.
Sure there are also good dogs with a PH title that wont mind if its a suite or civil. They just do their work.
In KNPV the selection of a puppy is different. A puppy is only selected on the possibility of working.
People in IPO with a GSD have bought the dog because he/she is so cute and ohhh yeah working the dog could be nice.
Training methods in KNPV are hard - e-collar, pinch collar, a kick in the ass are normal tools. Just because those methods have proven to bee succesfull.
In Holland there are a few KNPV trainers interested in other training methods used for example in IPO or flyball and when they can use that method they mix that with their own methods.
by Staatsmacht on 07 January 2014 - 09:01
@Black malinois
i think i know pretty well what a dog must do.but you do not get it!!!!!most of this dogs are in need of a target!!!same like a ipo dog.
my test is the first of a few, the dogs have there trigger moment when the handler stay on the edge of the forest and send him for revier.they do it hundreds of time in training and search for the suit, but there is no suit this time.easy to understand or not!!!key behavior( call into the bushes send the dog)-reaction from dog (go into the bushes- and search)-most time no result because no key object!!! and that is in bushes in there normal inviroment.
in building i give them first a stimulation, run into the building and hide on a shelf or where ever the dog can not reach me but can find me,same result with the most dogs. if you think that have nothing to do with quality than you are wrong,the dog get a key situation, only difference is there is no visible target on the person.
that is big problem in the most dogs in units around the world.most time the first real bite does not work out.
i think i know pretty well what a dog must do.but you do not get it!!!!!most of this dogs are in need of a target!!!same like a ipo dog.
my test is the first of a few, the dogs have there trigger moment when the handler stay on the edge of the forest and send him for revier.they do it hundreds of time in training and search for the suit, but there is no suit this time.easy to understand or not!!!key behavior( call into the bushes send the dog)-reaction from dog (go into the bushes- and search)-most time no result because no key object!!! and that is in bushes in there normal inviroment.
in building i give them first a stimulation, run into the building and hide on a shelf or where ever the dog can not reach me but can find me,same result with the most dogs. if you think that have nothing to do with quality than you are wrong,the dog get a key situation, only difference is there is no visible target on the person.
that is big problem in the most dogs in units around the world.most time the first real bite does not work out.
by Hired Dog on 07 January 2014 - 10:01
VK4...please try to understand that what Stefan and several others have spoken of so far as the really tough dogs that will bite a handler and the test in a cage is about.
A nice, social dog that scores high points in some sport and lives a happy life at home will not be able to go into a situation that does not involve some type of stimulation, usually prey, and alert or engage a helper without equipment on.
Yes, some of that has to do with training, but, most of it has to do with the genetics of said dog. The one who can project and function in fight drive, the one who is willing to bite anyone and bring the fight to them, is not the easiest or best dog to own/live with.
Yes, its a great dog to clear out a bar, yes, its a great dog to have when you respond to something involving a suspect on PCP who thinks he is Superman and is willing to take on all comers, but, that same dog WILL bite you, with the same intensity it does a stranger, if you try to do a number of things...eg, take away its prey, in this case the suspect, try to touch the suspect while the dog is on him, correct the dog when it feels like you are not being fair and a few more things, but, you get the point.
These dogs are not the type you sit on the couch with and watch TV or let your family interact with. These dogs take someone experienced to handle them and train and deal with them.
As I have said several times before, until your dog bites someone in shorts and a T-shirt, you have no idea if your dog bites for real or not, hence, I echo what Stefan said about units around the world having trouble with their first street bites.
A nice, social dog that scores high points in some sport and lives a happy life at home will not be able to go into a situation that does not involve some type of stimulation, usually prey, and alert or engage a helper without equipment on.
Yes, some of that has to do with training, but, most of it has to do with the genetics of said dog. The one who can project and function in fight drive, the one who is willing to bite anyone and bring the fight to them, is not the easiest or best dog to own/live with.
Yes, its a great dog to clear out a bar, yes, its a great dog to have when you respond to something involving a suspect on PCP who thinks he is Superman and is willing to take on all comers, but, that same dog WILL bite you, with the same intensity it does a stranger, if you try to do a number of things...eg, take away its prey, in this case the suspect, try to touch the suspect while the dog is on him, correct the dog when it feels like you are not being fair and a few more things, but, you get the point.
These dogs are not the type you sit on the couch with and watch TV or let your family interact with. These dogs take someone experienced to handle them and train and deal with them.
As I have said several times before, until your dog bites someone in shorts and a T-shirt, you have no idea if your dog bites for real or not, hence, I echo what Stefan said about units around the world having trouble with their first street bites.
by Paul Garrison on 07 January 2014 - 10:01
Well put Hired Dog.
by BlackMalinois on 07 January 2014 - 13:01
I hear you Stefan.
Some interesting different scenarios and locations I have seen from the ringsport people some very stessfull situations.
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