Steep Croups. - Page 2

Preston, I notice the dog has a 3-3 & a 3-4 in his pedigree - admittedly on Ursus & Max Mercanti!.

So coming back to the previous topic of  line breeding it does seem possible to produce excellent type from knowledgable and judiciuous use of line breeding, but am I correct in thinking a 3-3 is permitted by the SV anyhow?

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to goad or prove you wrong here... I just found it a little ironic that one of the dogs you do admire comes from such a line bred pedigree

AandA

Hi I'm new to the group and enjoy this thread.

I've got a couple of questions regarding the croup.

1 )How do you judge the croup if  it's long, sl. short , or short.?

2 )Can a croup that is angled correctly, but slighty short on one dog,

     be correct on another dog.?

Preston, your link doesn't work for some reason, so I'm reposting it along with a picture of the dog. You really like short backs, don't you? Personally, I think the dog would look better with a slightly longer back. If I had time I'd measure him, to see if he conforms to the standard in terms of height to length ratio.

Anyway, here's the link. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/473752.html

V Kevin von Wilde Nachwuchs

Hmmm....nice muscles....ummmm....[slaps self]

Oh, I'm supposed to be looking at the DOG! 

Oookay, for some reason the picture you posted took quite awhile to load, so I thought you hadn't posted one!   AND it's is a much better picture of the dog! It shows you just how much difference a really good stack can make in the dog's appearance. I take back what I said about the short back. Yes, it COULD be a touch longer, but I think he's still within the standard just the way he is.  Too bad they didn't post his koer report. I'd like to know what it says about him.

Sunsilver, thanks for posting the correct link to Kevin's pedigree and photo. I agree with what you say Speaknow, thanks for clarifyy things.  I just love males with the look of Kevin above.  Not exaggerated, very close to the standard. Now how well does he move and use his rear? 

Yes he is linebred, but I have seen this good that aren't.  It just depends how the genes mix and which animals are dominant producers for type.  Usually linebreeding gives more consistency, that is a larger proportion of the puppies turning out to look the same and similar to acertain type desired.  Sometimes close linebreeding actually bifurcates or lines up the genes into a couple of diffferent types based on other dogs in the pedigree, where an outcross wouldn't, so it can be deceiving. 

Okay, I calculated Kevin's length to height ration from his pedigree photo and it is 110%.  The FCI standard calls for this ratio to be within a range of 110 to 117 %. which it is.  A severe roach or markedly steep croup can actually shorten the apparent length of the dog (a roach back won't shorten the length of the spine, however). 

I calculated Kevin's length to height ratio off of the first photo above (versus his second pedigree associated one), which I think is easier to do and thus more accurate.  This time it came out to 112 % , which is within the standard and especially preferred because there is no roach or steep croup.  This GSD has very desirable consruction  and is what both showline and working line folks should attempt to breed for in structure.